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    Re: The shipwreck of Admiral Shovell
    From: Lu Abel
    Date: 2007 Aug 29, 17:19 -0700

    The page Gary references contains photos taken after the shipwrecks.  A
    more complete description of the actions leading up to the disaster is
    at http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/ev-1920s/ev-1923/hondapt.htm
    Lu Abel
    glapook@PACBELL.NET wrote:
    > Of course, these types of errors didn't end in 1707. In 1923 seven
    > U.S. distroyers went on the rocks at Honda point just north of Point
    > Argueillo on the California coast. The fleet was steaming southbound
    > in fog and had reckoned that they had gone far enough south to clear
    > Point Conception when the order was given to alter course to the east.
    > It was about 9.6 NM too soon. Here is a link to that story:
    > http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/ev-1920s/ev-1923/honda-8.htm
    > gl
    > On Aug 29, 4:22 pm, glap...@PACBELL.NET wrote:
    >>Another line in the old song is "we hove our ships to for to strike
    >>soundings fair, in forty five fathoms with a white sandy bottom, we
    >>squared our main yard and up channel we flew."
    >>Shovel's fleet also hove to "for to take soundings" so what went wrong
    >>with the soundings? are they ambiguous in the vicinity of the
    >>  It does look more like a latitude problem than a longitude problem.
    >>If they had gone aground on the channel islands, or the Minkies or the
    >>Cherbourg peninsula then it would look more like a longitude problem.
    >>On Aug 27, 2:19 am, "George Huxtable" 
    >>>Frank wrote-
    >>>| Here's a link to the file George provided:
    >>>| For convenience, I also inserted a direct link at the end of the archive
    >>>| copy of the previous message.
    >>>| Is this article under copyright? If so, please let me know in a couple of
    >>>| weeks.
    >>>from George-
    >>>Thank you Frank.
    >>>I hope readers will take a serious look at it. It's a salutary tale of the
    >>>dreadful state of Royal Navy navigation, in 1707. How things had changed by
    >>>Cook's day, half a century later!
    >>>There's a decent gap, enshrined in the words of the old song, "Twixt Ushant
    >>>and Scilly is thirty-five leagues ...", or 105 nautical miles. That was what
    >>>mariners had to find their way between, and without even lighthouses, in
    >>>early days. In the days before longitude could be measured, they had to do
    >>>it by latitude sailing, taking deep soundings to establish how close in to
    >>>the Western channel they had got. In thick weather, even latitudes were
    >>>unavailable. That situation remained true, until radio aids became available
    >>>(in the 1930s ?). I wonder if Henry Halboth can recall approaches made
    >>>without even radio DF help, and how ships then managed, in prolonged thick
    >>>Frank asked about copyright-
    >>>Yes, that paper is only 47 years old, so I suppose that copyright
    >>>restrictions apply, strictly speaking, and I should really have pointed that
    >>>out. Readers should respect that. It has here been made available for the
    >>>purpose of academic discussion, but should not be disseminated further, and
    >>>it might be wise for Frank to make it unavailable again after it's had time
    >>>to serve its purpose.
    >>>contact George Huxtable at geo...@huxtable.u-net.com
    >>>or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
    >>>or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK.
    > >
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