Welcome to the NavList Message Boards.

NavList:

A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding

Compose Your Message

Message:αβγ
Message:abc
Add Images & Files
    or...
       
    Reply
    Re: The shipwreck of Admiral Shovell
    From: Gary LaPook
    Date: 2007 Sep 17, 11:20 -0700
    I have attached a copy of Wright's chart. It is in four parts. I have also included a section where I have marked in more clearly the latitude near England.

    gl



    glapook{at}PACBELL.NET wrote:
    You state that the Scillies were plotted ten nm north of their true
    positions. I am looking at Edward Wright's chart published in 1599,
    more than one hundred years before the disaster. Bowditch (1962 ed.)
    gives the modern position of Bishop Rock as 49º 52' north and 6º 27'
    west and of the Lizard as 49º 58' north and 5º 12' west each of which
    are confirmed by Google Earth. Wright's chart gives the latitude of
    the Scillies as 49º 55' north only 3 nm north of the true position.
    The latitude of the Lizard on Wright's chart is 50º 00' north, two nm
    from its correct position. What chart was Shovel using that had less
    accurate latitudes than Wright's chart?
    
    Also interesting is that Wright has a scale of longitudes using Cape
    Verde as the prime meridian. Using Wright's chart he gives the
    longitude of Bishop Rock as 8º 20' east while modern longitude gives
    it as 11º 04' east of Cape Verde. (Cape Verde is 17º 31' west of
    Greenwich.) Wright puts Bishop Rock 121 nm west of its correct
    position which isn't too bad using Cape Verde. Wright put the Lizard
    at 10º 05' east of Cape Verde so 1º 45' east of Bishop Rock. The
    modern difference is only 1º 15' making a 30' difference, an error of
    19 nm.  (I will scan this chart in tomorrow)
    
    gl
    
    On Aug 27, 2:19 am, "George Huxtable" <geo...---.u-net.com>
    wrote:
      
    Frank wrote-
    
    | Here's a link to the file George provided:
    |http://fer3.com/arc/img/Clowdisley_Shovel_1707_JIN_1960.pdf
    |
    | For convenience, I also inserted a direct link at the end of the archive
    | copy of the previous message.
    |
    | Is this article under copyright? If so, please let me know in a couple of
    | weeks.
    
    =========================
    
    from George-
    
    Thank you Frank.
    
    I hope readers will take a serious look at it. It's a salutary tale of the
    dreadful state of Royal Navy navigation, in 1707. How things had changed by
    Cook's day, half a century later!
    
    Not entirely their own fault, of course. The concept of longitude, as a
    quantity that could be specified for locations around the world, with some
    common reference-point (perhaps at Greenwich), hadn't really sunk in then.
    Instead, mariners thought about changes in longitude, with reference to
    their starting point, derived from their dead-reckoning.
    
    But what I find so surprising are the discrepancies in latitude, in a fleet
    that was sailing together as a convoy. As long as the Sun shone at noon (and
    it had been doing so, reasonably often) latitude should have been clear-cut.
    Well, limited by the precision of their backstaffs, to perhaps 15 minutes or
    so.
    
    And not helped by the scandalous errors in charts, in the days when these
    were commercial ventures, before the Admiralty Chart existed. How many ships
    were lost because the Scillies, and Lizard, were plotted on the chart nearly
    10 miles North of their true position, I wonder?
    
    There's a decent gap, enshrined in the words of the old song, "Twixt Ushant
    and Scilly is thirty-five leagues ...", or 105 nautical miles. That was what
    mariners had to find their way between, and without even lighthouses, in
    early days. In the days before longitude could be measured, they had to do
    it by latitude sailing, taking deep soundings to establish how close in to
    the Western channel they had got. In thick weather, even latitudes were
    unavailable. That situation remained true, until radio aids became available
    (in the 1930s ?). I wonder if Henry Halboth can recall approaches made
    without even radio DF help, and how ships then managed, in prolonged thick
    weather?
    
    ================================
    
    Frank asked about copyright-
    
    Yes, that paper is only 47 years old, so I suppose that copyright
    restrictions apply, strictly speaking, and I should really have pointed that
    out. Readers should respect that. It has here been made available for the
    purpose of academic discussion, but should not be disseminated further, and
    it might be wise for Frank to make it unavailable again after it's had time
    to serve its purpose.
    
    George.
    
    contact George Huxtable at geo...---.u-net.com
    or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
    or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK.
        
    
    
    
    
      


    --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
    To post to this group, send email to NavList@fer3.com
    To unsubscribe, send email to NavList-unsubscribe@fer3.com
    -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

    File:

      
       
    Reply
    Browse Files

    Drop Files

    NavList

    What is NavList?

    Join NavList

    Name:
    (please, no nicknames or handles)
    Email:
    Do you want to receive all group messages by email?
    Yes No

    You can also join by posting. Your first on-topic post automatically makes you a member.

    Posting Code

    Enter the email address associated with your NavList messages. Your posting code will be emailed to you immediately.
    Email:

    Email Settings

    Posting Code:

    Custom Index

    Subject:
    Author:
    Start date: (yyyymm dd)
    End date: (yyyymm dd)

    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site