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    Re: The shipwreck of Admiral Shovell
    From: Gary LaPook
    Date: 2007 Aug 29, 16:36 -0700

    Of course, these types of errors didn't end in 1707. In 1923 seven
    U.S. distroyers went on the rocks at Honda point just north of Point
    Argueillo on the California coast. The fleet was steaming southbound
    in fog and had reckoned that they had gone far enough south to clear
    Point Conception when the order was given to alter course to the east.
    It was about 9.6 NM too soon. Here is a link to that story:
    
    http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/ev-1920s/ev-1923/honda-8.htm
    
    
    gl
    On Aug 29, 4:22 pm, glap...{at}PACBELL.NET wrote:
    > Another line in the old song is "we hove our ships to for to strike
    > soundings fair, in forty five fathoms with a white sandy bottom, we
    > squared our main yard and up channel we flew."
    >
    > Shovel's fleet also hove to "for to take soundings" so what went wrong
    > with the soundings? are they ambiguous in the vicinity of the
    > Scillies?
    >
    >   It does look more like a latitude problem than a longitude problem.
    > If they had gone aground on the channel islands, or the Minkies or the
    > Cherbourg peninsula then it would look more like a longitude problem.
    > gl
    >
    > On Aug 27, 2:19 am, "George Huxtable" 
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Frank wrote-
    >
    > > | Here's a link to the file George provided:
    > > |http://fer3.com/arc/img/Clowdisley_Shovel_1707_JIN_1960.pdf
    > > |
    > > | For convenience, I also inserted a direct link at the end of the archive
    > > | copy of the previous message.
    > > |
    > > | Is this article under copyright? If so, please let me know in a couple of
    > > | weeks.
    >
    > > =========================
    >
    > > from George-
    >
    > > Thank you Frank.
    >
    > > I hope readers will take a serious look at it. It's a salutary tale of the
    > > dreadful state of Royal Navy navigation, in 1707. How things had changed by
    > > Cook's day, half a century later!
    >
    > > There's a decent gap, enshrined in the words of the old song, "Twixt Ushant
    > > and Scilly is thirty-five leagues ...", or 105 nautical miles. That was what
    > > mariners had to find their way between, and without even lighthouses, in
    > > early days. In the days before longitude could be measured, they had to do
    > > it by latitude sailing, taking deep soundings to establish how close in to
    > > the Western channel they had got. In thick weather, even latitudes were
    > > unavailable. That situation remained true, until radio aids became available
    > > (in the 1930s ?). I wonder if Henry Halboth can recall approaches made
    > > without even radio DF help, and how ships then managed, in prolonged thick
    > > weather?
    >
    > > ================================
    >
    > > Frank asked about copyright-
    >
    > > Yes, that paper is only 47 years old, so I suppose that copyright
    > > restrictions apply, strictly speaking, and I should really have pointed that
    > > out. Readers should respect that. It has here been made available for the
    > > purpose of academic discussion, but should not be disseminated further, and
    > > it might be wise for Frank to make it unavailable again after it's had time
    > > to serve its purpose.
    >
    > > George.
    >
    > > contact George Huxtable at geo...---.u-net.com
    > > or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
    > > or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK.
    
    
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