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    Re: A query from Hakluyt
    From: Alexandre Eremenko
    Date: 2012 Mar 19, 14:23 -0400

    Everyone after Herodotus was quoting him.
    Including Strabo and Halkuyt.
    I will find and post the exact sentence
    of Herodotus later today.
    
    Alex.
    
    On Mon, 19 Mar 2012, John H wrote:
    
    >
    > Actually wasn't this from Strabo quoting Herodotus?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Alexandre E Eremenko <
    > eremenko---purdue.edu> wrote:
    >
    >> I can only add that all information about this travel is based
    >> on a sentence of Herodotus History, where the mentions this fact,
    >> that the Sun was on their right, and adds that he does not believe it.
    >>
    >> Authors in late antiquity and Middle ages also found this absolutely
    >> incredible. However, in modern times, this is considered a decisive proof
    >> that the travel really happened, because Herodotus or
    >> his sources could not
    >> possibly invent such an "absurd" thing:-)
    >>
    >> Alex.
    >>
    >>
    >> On Mon, 19 Mar 2012, Wil Bailey wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Tracking down the coast of Eastern Africa, through the Mozambique Channel
    >>> and onwards - essentially SSW'ly - the sun at noon would be more often
    >>> than
    >>> not over the starboard quarter, where the 'steering oar' was then
    >>> positioned.
    >>>
    >>> In following the coastline of Southern Africa along the stretch between
    >>> Port Elizabeth and Cape Agulhas, then on to False Bay/The Cape of Good
    >>> Hope, the course is more or less westwards. for some 750-800km. That would
    >>> place the sun at noon on the starboard beam - more or less.
    >>>
    >>> Given that reliable compasses were not then in general use or favour, one
    >>> would expect a close awareness of ship's direction with respect to the
    >>> noon
    >>> sun to be maintained - for there was little else they could rely on.
    >>>
    >>> KR
    >>>
    >>> On 19 March 2012 09:47, Richard Dunn  wrote:
    >>>
    >>>  Dear all
    >>>>
    >>>> I have been sent the query below and was wondering if anyone on NavList
    >>>> had any useful thoughts.
    >>>>
    >>>> One suggestion here is that Hakluyt is saying that once in the tropic of
    >>>> capricorn the sun was behind the mainmast and over the steering board,
    >>>> ie.,
    >>>> astern. This makes sense to me, but if anyone can add something, we'd
    >>>> love
    >>>> to hear.
    >>>>
    >>>> All the best
    >>>> Richard Dunn
    >>>> National Maritime Museum Greenwich
    >>>>
    >>>> Original message:
    >>>>
    >>>> I have been working on Hakluyt’s prefatory materials and a question has
    >>>> come up which exposes my lack of grasp of matters navigational. I
    >>>> wondered
    >>>> if I could run this by you.
    >>>>
    >>>> The passage comes from Hakluyt’s preface to the reader of volume 1
    >>>> (1598).
    >>>> The context is that he is trying to point out that the English had it
    >>>> much
    >>>> harder sailing to the northern waters above Russia since no one had led
    >>>> the
    >>>> way. By contrast, in Vasca da Gama’s case the Portuguese knew from
    >>>> classical sources that Africa could be rounded. Hakluyt then recounts
    >>>> something from Herodotus to prove his point:
    >>>>
    >>>> 'Neco an AEgyptian King, who (for trials sake) sent a Fleet of
    >>>> Phoenicians
    >>>> downe the Red sea; who setting forth in Autumne and sailing Southward
    >>>> till
    >>>> they had the Sunne at noonetide vpon their sterbourd (that is to say,
    >>>> having crossed the AEquinoctial and the Southerne tropique) after a long
    >>>> Navigation, directed their course to the North, and in the space of 3.
    >>>> yeeres environed all Africk, passing home through the Gaditan streites,
    >>>> and
    >>>> arriving in AEgypt?'
    >>>>
    >>>> The basics of what he’s saying are clear enough in terms of rounding
    >>>> Africa but I realize I don’t have a way of properly annotating what he is
    >>>> saying about the navigational element.
    >>>>
    >>>> My question is what Hakluyt is trying to indicate about the sun’s
    >>>> position, etc. The journey referred to begins in autumn, sailing south
    >>>> from
    >>>> the Red Sea. The position of the sun at noon (noontide) is at its height
    >>>> in
    >>>> the southern tropic in the December solstice (which may be why he
    >>>> mentions
    >>>> autumn, though he clearly doesn’t know how far they would have got by
    >>>> then). I’m not too sure what it means to say that having crossed the
    >>>> tropic
    >>>> the sun is on the right (i.e. not overhead) at noon and what that
    >>>> indicates
    >>>> about the position of the vessel. I take it that this is all while
    >>>> travelling south as opposed to sailing west once the end of the continent
    >>>> had been reached.
    >>>>
    >>>> Any illuminations you could offer or advice about where to look would be
    >>>> most welcome.
    >>>>
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    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> View and reply to this message: 
    http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=**118394
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    > -- 
    > Keeping up with the grind
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > View and reply to this message: http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=118398
    >
    >
    >
    
    
    

       
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