Welcome to the NavList Message Boards.


A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding

Compose Your Message

Add Images & Files
    Re: A credible AIS track for the Costa Concordia
    From: Dave Harwood
    Date: 2012 Jan 29, 02:52 +0000

    Frank wrote,

    “Do you have any idea how they judge the effectiveness of this training? Have there been fewer incidents that could be blamed on these issues?”

    I do not.  A Google search revealed this study (http://www2.anac.gov.br/portal/media/doesCrewResourceManagement.pdf) on the subject.  Overall, the study indicates a positive trend after the implementation of CRM training, however, it is unable to definitively determine whether that positive trend was due CRM training or improvements in other areas.

    I suppose one may assume that CRM training has proven its effectiveness simply based on its longevity and significance the aviation community has placed upon it.  It could also be argued, however, that military leaders and corporate managers would never risk discontinuing training and finding themselves a scapegoat of the next tragedy.

    I’ll have a good question to pose during my refresher training this year!

    I have always found human factors to be an ever present and fascinating element of accident investigation.  As for the Costa Concordia tragedy, I think we will find human factors to be a significant causal factor.  Captain Schettino will, of course, be the focus of this investigation but we must not forget that there were many other humans on the bridge that night.

    -D Harwood


    From: FrankReed@HistoricalAtlas.com
    To: NavList@fer3.com
    Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:45:00 -0800
    Subject: [NavList] Re: A credible AIS track for the Costa Concordia

    Dave Harwood, you wrote:
    "We know this as Crew Resource Management (CRM) in the military aviation community."
    Thanks. I didn't know that. Do you have any idea how they judge the effectiveness of this training? Have there been fewer incidents that could be blamed on these issues?
    And you added:
    "When you expire, you’re grounded…period."
    Wow. That's interesting!
    You cited three aspects that might be relevant to the Costa Concordia:
    1) "EXCESSIVE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY: Hesitancy to say anything for fear of insulting the other pilot's skills, especially if that pilot is a friend or superior."
    The friendship aspect may well be important here. From the press reports, it sounds like the community of ships' officers in Italy is a rather tight-knit group. They were doing this "fly-by" or "salute" at Giglio Island in part because they knew people there including, supposedly, a well-respected former captain. Some degree of social independence, enforced by regulation, would seem to be a good idea here. For that matter, even way back in 1707 in the sinking of Shovell's fleet on the Scillies (famously connected with the quest for longitude), the Admiral had plenty of officers of captain's rank with which to consult on the navigation --but they were mostly family relatives.
    2) "HALO EFFECT: Hesitancy to speak up when the erring pilot is known to be an expert, or has more experience than yourself."
    An interesting point raised here:
    is that Schettino was relatively inexperienced and that the rapidly-expanding cruise ship fleets are having trouble finding officers. I suppose it's a good time to head off to a maritime academy. By the way, the history at the above web site is quite interesting and includes some remarkable details about this huge ship.
    3) "DEVIATION NORMALIZATION: It’s been done wrong for so long that it becomes the new normal."
    Yes, that sounds like a major factor here, both for Schettino and his officers and the cruise company that appears to have agreed to these maneuvers more than they're admitting right now. Yet a software system would have caught this easily, and presumably such a system was installed on the ship. Unfortunately, I would not be surprised to learn that the captain distrusts high technology. I would not be surprised to find out that he owns a sextant...
    And Dave, I would just like to add that I found your comments very stimulating. After the dust settles and the "burn the witch!" mentality fades, I suspect that these are just the sorts of issues that will be discussed with respect to cruise ship officer training and management.
    NavList message boards and member settings: www.fer3.com/NavList
    Members may optionally receive posts by email.
    To cancel email delivery, send a message to NoMail[at]fer3.com
    Browse Files

    Drop Files


    What is NavList?

    Join NavList

    (please, no nicknames or handles)
    Do you want to receive all group messages by email?
    Yes No

    You can also join by posting. Your first on-topic post automatically makes you a member.

    Posting Code

    Enter the email address associated with your NavList messages. Your posting code will be emailed to you immediately.

    Email Settings

    Posting Code:

    Custom Index

    Start date: (yyyymm dd)
    End date: (yyyymm dd)

    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site