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Re: Word Games
From: Dave Weilacher
Date: 2005 Feb 15, 11:40 -0800

I'm okay with moving on to navigation topics but I obviously feel compelled to have the last word in these word games. (obviously, or I would have just kept shut)

All through secondary school, our my social studies teacher kept a poster of Nikita Krushchev looking angry, pointing his finger, and the caption said "We will bury you!' (speaking of the USA).

This did much to influence my opinion of the USSR in general and those commie Russions in particular.

Years later, I was watching an education channel program where the guest brought up this very same speech and quote of Krushchev. He said the problem was that the translater translated literally what was just a colloquialism (sp?) of the Russion language.

Not so many years ago, I was watching a 'shocker' news expose about an American woman that was beat to a vegitative state by a local Guadamalain community. Even the local Army would not protect her from the wrath of the locals. Apparently the locals became convinced the American was there to steal their babies.

The very same day, I heard my wife use these words to a little baby "You are so cute, I'd like to steal you and take you home with me" The mother just beamed. (to me, it looked like a little slug that continously slimed at both ends).

I have wondered since, if the American woman had translated one of our colloqiu things into their langange.

So please conclude this. It is not the words or symbols used, its what is in the heart of who is saying them. And we are all good hearts on this list.

Not to mention that the swastika is first and foremost an American Indian symbol representing the four winds. Hitler stole it. Retiring it for his sake is like retiring a famous atheletes number. He doesn't deserve that.

-----Original Message-----
From: Yourname Here
Sent: Feb 15, 2005 5:23 AM
To: NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM
Subject: Re: WORD GAMES

Frank,

You obviously are a well educated and scholarly individual. Therefore, it distresses me when you feel the need to add words to what I said to try and make your point. I didn't say a Russian Nationalist, I said "nationalism". Why you insist this a negative word when taken alone is surprising. To most people it has no negative connotation. Then you to try and stretch that into something else is something you are frequently compelled to do. That is what is absurd.

And in regard to your Swastika comments, again you miss the point. I said, IMO, Alex is easily offended by things that were never meant to offend. That is simply a statement of my opinion. Period, exclamation point

Neither you or Alex are likely old enough to have lived through WW II so your understanding of how life was during or directly after the war is predicated on other than personal experience. His is obviously much more real than yours due to the impact the war had on his family and friends. I didn't get to Germany the first time until 1958, but I was in our Navy starting in 1948. I was well insulated from the atrocities that took place, but am old enough to remember them and many of the people who were directly affected. What that has to do with life today is beyond me other than to say Terrorism is the enemy not what happend 60 plus years ago.

Its time we moved on to other things. ;-)

Joel Jacobs

-------------- Original message from Frank Reed <FrankReedCT@AOL.COM>: --------------

Joel, regarding the word 'nationalism' you wrote:

"Here's is a definition of nationalism at four levels of common useage."

Yikes. We are at a point in this discussion where you will probably pay little attention to anything I might add, so I'm going to suggest only ONE thing to you. Consider it a challenge. Go to google.com and search on "Russian nationalists" (use the quote marks so that the search engine will go after the phrase). What sort of links do you find? Perhaps that will help you to understand what I was saying. What does it mean if you suggest that someone is a Russian nationalist? This business is neither petty nor 'word games'.

And wrote:

"This is not the first time when something innocent was said , that Alex took offense. Others may recall his great upset when a Swastika was mentioned when discussing a Kreigsmariie sextant."

I recall that he was surprised, even shocked, but this is hardly an unusual or extreme reaction to this symbol. In the collection of working sextants (the ones used for classes) at the Mystic Seaport Planetarium, there is a kriegsmarine sextant which was given to the museum years ago. A previous owner had very thoroughly gouged out the swastika on the instrument. Is that bad? Did that person deface history? Or did that person make history? Both?? It's no simple matter, but it is not surprising to me that people are concerned by the display of swastikas. At this very moment, there is a debate in Europe on whether to pass an EU-wide ban on swastikas. It's a bad precedent, in my opinion, but I understand why people are so concerned. Thousands of neo-Nazis marched in Dresden yesterday. And by the way, they call themselves "German nationalists" --just like their predecessors.

And concluded:

"What absurdity."

You said it.

-FER
42.0N 87.7W, or 41.4N 72.1W.
www.HistoricalAtlas.com/lunars


Dave Weilacher
.IBM AS400 RPG contract programmer
.USCG Master lic. 100 ton
.ASA Sailing Instructor Evaluator

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