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    Re: Using a slide rule for celnav
    From: Gary LaPook
    Date: 2014 Jan 20, 16:58 -0800
    A thorough study of thousands of sextant observations taken by professional navigators showed a standard deviation of about 1.5 minutes and if you are using H.O. 229 it states that the accuracy is usually within 0.2' with some weird cases producing errors up to 3.9' in the Hc so don't get too upset about the possible inaccuracy introduced by using the Bygrave formulas on a ten inch slide rule. It's nice to work to a precision of 0.1' in our tables and calculators but we are really going beyond our data if we think that we are going to get a significantly more accurate fix by doing so. This precision is swamped out by the measurement uncertainty, the uncertainty in the Nautical Almanac and in the computations themselves, why only work to a precision of 0.1' why not 0.0001'?

    gl



    From: Gary LaPook <garylapook---.net>
    To: garylapook---.net
    Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 4:33 PM
    Subject: [NavList] Re: Using a slide rule for celnav


    You're right, he Bygrave does about 1 or 2 minutes of accuracy, about like HO 249. If you want greater precision than that then you must stick to the methods that you currently are using. I hope there is no EMP in your neighborhood.

    gl



    From: Greg Licfi <cfi{at}licfi.com>
    To: garylapook---.net
    Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 9:33 AM
    Subject: [NavList] Re: Using a slide rule for celnav


    Hi Gary,
          Perhaps I'm just misinformed; and in this case I would love to be - so please take no offense if I am.
     I think I read somewhere that a Bygrave sliderule can only resolve 1 arc minute(?).
    This might be better suited to a aircraft with a bubble sextant (+/- 2 arc minutes after averaging ?) then a ship.
    I currently do my calculations with: H.O.229, a smart phone app, ICE, and a scientific calculator.
    all of which seem to agree within +/- 0.1 arc minute with the USNO. If it (the Bygrave sliderule) can resolve
    better than that I would be a convert for sure. Also; how much resolution do you need on the sliderule?
    Back in my college days 3 or 4 decimal places was considered good with a 'K&E Decalon(?)5'
    BTW: I'm a big fan of ICE - I run it on my laptop & smart phone with something called 'dosbox' My smartphone
    app uses USNO software and data, ICE was a USNO product, as is H.O.229. so you would expect them to all
    yield the same results (no?)
    ~Greg

    This new ship here is fitted according to the reported increase of knowledge among mankind. Namely,
    she is cumbered end to end, with bells and trumpets and clock and wires, it has been told to me, can call
    voices out of the air of the waters to con the ship while her crew sleep. But sleep Thou lightly. It has not
    yet been told to me that the Sea has ceased to be the Sea.
    —Rudyard Kipling


      On 01/20/2014 04:28 AM, Gary LaPook wrote:

    But if you are thinking of doing celestial computations on a normal sliderule you should consider using the Bygrave formulas instead of the normal cosine formula because they give greater accuracy. See:



    http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx/Bygrave-formula-accuracy-10-inch-slide-rule-Hirose-jul-2009-g8985

    http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx/Bygrave-formula-accuracy-10-inch-slide-rule-LaPook-jul-2009-g9019

    Or, you can make your very own Bygrave sliderule which provides even greater accuracy, complete plans are available here:

    https://sites.google.com/site/fredienoonan/other-flight-navigation-information/modern-bygrave-slide-rule

    gl



    From: David Cortes <dcortes{at}rwlw.com>
    To: garylapook---.net
    Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2014 10:48 PM
    Subject: [NavList] Using a slide rule for celnav


    To Navlist:
    
    I learned how to use a slide rule back in high school, and it's been 45-plus years.  Can some of you old-timers tell whether it's possible to multiply sin by sin or cos by cos, etc.  n one continuous operation, without putting the rule down to write down the number of the first calculated sin or cosin, etc.?
    
    David
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: NavList@fer3.com [mailto:NavList@fer3.com] On Behalf Of Frank Reed
    Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 12:13 AM
    To: dcortes{at}rwlw.com
    Subject: [NavList] Re: What is a "Class A" sextant?
    
    Hi Brad,
    
    My understanding of the Kew "Class A" rating was that it was an overall rating. It was the certification required for sextants given to Royal Navy cadets. It combined several factors, and the instrument had to meet various standards on several tests.
    
    You may remember a NavList discussion a few years back about tables of "star distances" published in about 1905 for use with Lord Ellenborough's method of testing sextant arc error at sea (*). In the introduction, the authors say that a "Class A" certification implies among "other things" that the centering error (or "arc error" as we would call it today) amounted to less than 1' of arc maximum. Classes B and C would presumably permit progressively greater arc error, and this same source says that the sextant would be "rejected" (in other words, worse than class C) if the arc error was greater than 3'.
    
    *that discussion was in March 2010, and here's my first message on thee subject, specifically addressed to you personally, in fact. :)
    
    -FER
    
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