Welcome to the NavList Message Boards.

NavList:

A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding

Compose Your Message

Message:αβγ
Message:abc
Add Images & Files
    or...
       
    Reply
    Re: Sundog
    From: John Huth
    Date: 2013 Feb 16, 14:50 -0500
    Two "nudgey-pedantic" details.   22 degrees is the minimum angle of bending of light from a hexagonal ice crystal.   It can certainly be larger, much larger.   It turns out that for random orientations of an ice crystal, you get most of the "action" around 22 degrees.   That's because, as you vary the angle of incidence of the sunlight (or moonlight), there's a very broad minimum for refraction, and 22 degrees is the minimum value, so you get most of the light concentrated there, and a sharp cut-off.

    Second - the horizontal formation is due to the "plate-like" shape of the ice crystals.   As they settle out of the atmosphere, they tend to 'flatten' - try dropping a piece of paper and you'll see what I'm talking about - the long flat side aligns horizontally.   Sundogs and moondogs formed when the sun or moon are close to the horizon have this effect, BUT, when they're high in the sky, the circles around the sun or moon are pretty much circular and symmetric.

    In any case, the 22 degree number and assuming it's flat for a setting sun is pretty good - I couldn't resist being the pedant. 

    On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Bill B <billyrem42@earthlink.net> wrote:

    On 2/16/2013 12:54 PM, Greg Rudzinski wrote:
    > After closer inspection of the image ......large snip....
    > Is there a UT time for the image ?
    
    Excuse my OCD. To solve a problem we first need to understand the
    problem. Frank stated:
    Lat 41d (Franks approx. location 41.5d N, 71.4d W)
    Hilly country ("Hilly" is relative. A hill in KS... ;-)
    YOU are facing the sundog
    YOUR sundog approx 5d high (using what as a horizon?)
    Sun blocked by hill to left
    Date February 10, (2013 assumed but not stated)
    
    Of importance Frank did not specify this is the sundog he saw, but
    rather the sundog YOU are facing. I think Frank's sundog was closer to
    41.5d N.
    
    To me this means MY sundog could be at any longitude I specify near
    sunset. Where I place myself determines time and therefore declination.
    For simplicity of calculations MY sundog was at 41d N and 75d W. (a bit
    north of Philadelphia, PA.) 41d N and not too far from Frank, and hilly.
    (A look at a topo map of Frank's immediate area does not suggest it is a
    natural for development of a downhill ski resort.)
    
    Once you set YOUR longitude and determine approx time (and declination)
    when observed CENTER of sun would be 5d above the horizon and adjust for
    dip, refraction and temp/pressure just plug 41d, adjusted HO/HC and
    declination into the sine formula for azimuth. Add 22d and voila.
    
    That's my take on the king's new cloths ;-)
    
    Bill B
    
    
    
    On 2/16/2013 12:54 PM, Greg Rudzinski wrote:
    > After closer inspection of the image ......large snip....
    > Is there a UT time for the image ?
    
    
    
    
    
    

    View and reply to this message: http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=122386


       
    Reply
    Browse Files

    Drop Files

    NavList

    What is NavList?

    Join NavList

    Name:
    (please, no nicknames or handles)
    Email:
    Do you want to receive all group messages by email?
    Yes No

    You can also join by posting. Your first on-topic post automatically makes you a member.

    Posting Code

    Enter the email address associated with your NavList messages. Your posting code will be emailed to you immediately.
    Email:

    Email Settings

    Posting Code:

    Custom Index

    Subject:
    Author:
    Start date: (yyyymm dd)
    End date: (yyyymm dd)

    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site