NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Submarine navigation (was Dip-meter again)
From: Lu Abel
Date: 2012 Apr 10, 16:40 -0700
From: Lu Abel
Date: 2012 Apr 10, 16:40 -0700
Let's not forget that almost from the outset (and certainly by the 1960s) US and Soviet missile submarines relied on underwater launches; surfacing was not necessary. In fact, nuclear subs avoided surfacing for any reason (including obtaining their position) at any time during a patrol because their navies wanted there to be no opportunity to locate them (a surfaced sub leaves an enormous "footprint," maybe not visually, but in heat, noise, magnetic field disturbance, etc, etc). It is my understanding that nuclear ICBM carrying submarines (or at least US subs) therefore relied solely on inertial navigation systems. So the advent of the Transit satellites was irrelevant to missile-carrying submarines.
From: Richard B. Langley <lang@unb.ca>
To: NavList@fer3.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:02 AM
Subject: [NavList] Re: Dip-meter again
The first TRANSIT satellite was launched in 1961. The system was declared operational in 1964 and became classified. In 1967 it was declassified and became available for civilian use.
-- Richard Langley
On 10-Apr-12, at 2:47 PM, Alexandre E Eremenko wrote:
>
> Fred,
> I afraid they did not.
> I am talking of early 60-s. It is to this epoch that
> the first submarine missiles and unguided Minuteman belong.
> I doubt that in the early 60-s Americans had a satellite nav
> comparable to Cel Nav in accuracy.
>
> All this can be of course checked on the Internet.
> The guidance of missiles and Sat Nav systems,
> when they started to use them.
>
> So here is a clearly stated Question to the list:
>
> When the first satellite based nav system came into use,
> which superceded Cel Nav in accuracy ?
> (I am sure someone has a ready ans).
>
> Alex.
>
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Fred Hebard wrote:
>
>>
>> The Americans may have had satellite nav then; the Transit series of satellites. I believe they had to know where they were.
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Alexandre E Eremenko wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>>
>>>> Just as a side note, one reason the Soviets may have
>>>> been more interested in dip than others is that anomalous dip is more common in the Arctic (and Antarctic).
>>>
>>> And I assume you have to know the position of your submarine
>>> very exactly, to be able to hit your target with an ICBM :-)
>>> Perhaps this was the reason why Schufeldt report was classified?
>>>
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>> P.S. I am not sure about early submarine ICBM, but once I visited
>>> an old Minuteman silo in Wyoming (it is open for the public). I was surprised that the missile
>>> was unguided. It was aimed only at the start by a sophisticated aiming
>>> arrangement, involving a hudge graduated ring... For this you need to know your launching position
>>> very exactly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> : http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=118894
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Richard B. Langley E-mail: lang@unb.ca |
| Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/ |
| Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering Phone: +1 506 453-5142 |
| University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 |
| Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 |
| Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.fredericton.ca/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
