NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Submarine navigation (was Dip-meter again)
From: Alexandre Eremenko
Date: 2012 Apr 10, 20:23 -0400
From: Alexandre Eremenko
Date: 2012 Apr 10, 20:23 -0400
Lu, What you say is interesting. However, what I read about inertial nav systems, shows that they cannot be used for long time. Because errors accumulate. Then I don't understand how can a nuclear submarine stay submerged at a substantial depth, (not using a periscope) for long time. See, for example, Wikipedia article on inertial nav. I know that surfacing is unnecessary for launching missiles (by modern submarines). But how can navigation be done without surfacing, I do not understand. Do we have a nuclear sub retired captain in our list? :-) Alex. GPS or any other radio based system also will not work under water, of course. On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Lu Abel wrote: > Let's not forget that almost from the outset (and certainly by the 1960s) > US and Soviet missile submarines relied on underwater launches; > surfacing > was not necessary. In fact, nuclear subs avoided surfacing for any > reason (including obtaining their position) at any time during a patrol > because their navies wanted there to be no opportunity to locate them (a > surfaced sub leaves an enormous "footprint," maybe not visually, but in > heat, noise, magnetic field disturbance, etc, etc). It is my > understanding that nuclear ICBM carrying submarines (or at least US > subs) > therefore relied solely on inertial navigation systems. So the advent > of the Transit satellites was irrelevant to missile-carrying submarines. > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: Richard B. Langley>> To: NavList@fer3.com >> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:02 AM >> Subject: [NavList] Re: Dip-meter again >> >> The first TRANSIT satellite was launched in 1961. The system was declared operational in 1964 and became classified. In 1967 it was declassified and became available for civilian use. >> >> -- Richard Langley >> >> On 10-Apr-12, at 2:47 PM, Alexandre E Eremenko wrote: >> >>> >>> Fred, >>> I afraid they did not. >>> I am talking of early 60-s. It is to this epoch that >>> the first submarine missiles and unguided Minuteman belong. >>> I doubt that in the early 60-s Americans had a satellite nav >>> comparable to Cel Nav in accuracy. >>> >>> All this can be of course checked on the Internet. >>> The guidance of missiles and Sat Nav systems, >>> when they started to use them. >>> >>> So here is a clearly stated Question to the list: >>> >>> When the first satellite based nav system came into use, >>> which superceded Cel Nav in accuracy ? >>> (I am sure someone has a ready ans). >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012, Fred Hebard wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> The Americans may have had satellite nav then; the Transit series of satellites. I believe they had to know where they were. >>>> >>>> On Apr 10, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Alexandre E Eremenko wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Fred, >>>>> >>>>>> Just as a side note, one reason the Soviets may have >>>>>> been more interested in dip than others is that anomalous dip is more common in the Arctic (and Antarctic). >>>>> >>>>> And I assume you have to know the position of your submarine >>>>> very exactly, to be able to hit your target with an ICBM :-) >>>>> Perhaps this was the reason why Schufeldt report was classified? >>>>> >>>>> Alex. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. I am not sure about early submarine ICBM, but once I visited >>>>> an old Minuteman silo in Wyoming (it is open for the public). I was surprised that the missile >>>>> was unguided. It was aimed only at the start by a sophisticated aiming >>>>> arrangement, involving a hudge graduated ring... For this you need to know your launching position >>>>> very exactly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> : http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=118894 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> | Richard B. Langley E-mail: lang---ca | >> | Geodetic Research Laboratory Web: http://www.unb.ca/GGE/ | >> | Dept. of Geodesy and Geomatics Engineering Phone: +1 506 453-5142 | >> | University of New Brunswick Fax: +1 506 453-4943 | >> | Fredericton, N.B., Canada E3B 5A3 | >> | Fredericton? Where's that? See: http://www.fredericton.ca/ | >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > : http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=118930 > > >
