NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Sadler
From: Frank Reed
Date: 2008 Dec 25, 20:20 -0800
From: Frank Reed
Date: 2008 Dec 25, 20:20 -0800
Nicolas, you wrote: "On board of a vessel the whole issue is indeed academic, but let us not forget that Sadler's original idea was "...to observe the dip, accurately by theodolite, from fixed locations on the seashore ... using the height of the tide to give varying heights above sea-level.". Tidal ranges of more than 10 metres are not uncommon and can be very useful in such an experiment, as this will produce a difference in dip of more than 3 arc minutes (assuming the observer stands at 3m above high water and thus 13m above low water)." There's nothing wrong with that idea, of course. And when practicing celestial navigation from shore, it's important to remember that you need your height of eye above the water at that time, and not a height taken from a chart, e.g., which would give the height relative to some fixed datum, like low tide level or MLLW or something else. But that's obvious enough. And: "Sadler only pointed out that it was difficult to determine the relation between the tide measured near the shore with the one measured at the horizon, an unknown perhaps not measurable with a sextant, but surely with a theodolite." I really think that Sadler was inventing a pseudo-explanation for variability which he could not otherwise explain. We know today that the variability in dip is caused by significant variations in terrestrial refraction due primarily to the temperature structure of the air near the sea surface. He mentions that he had access to air and sea temperature data from a lightship on the horizon and apparently he believed that this would show some correlation with the variability of dip. With observations taken from shore like this, the variations in dip can be quite substantial --several minutes of arc easily. Air and water temperatures at the horizon are simply insufficient to explain those variations (you need much more detail on the air temperature profile). Now what about the tides? Let's consider the case that you mentioned previously: that area near the amphidromic point in the North Sea between England and the Netherlands. The tilt is on the order of 2 feet in 20 nautical miles (I believe that's about right). The sea surface is tilted, very much like a tilted tabletop, with the direction of tilt depending on the tide phase. A normal vector to the mean sea surface over a broad area in this part of the North Sea is tilted by about 3.5 seconds of arc in a direction which rotates around the zenith with the period of the tides. So if we measure altitudes relative to the sea horizon, they will be too low by about one twentieth of a minute of arc when we are looking "uphill" and too high by the same amount when we are looking "downhill". That would be the variation of dip due to the tidal tilt of the sea surface, and this is an area with among the highest tilts on the oceans. This is very small and "academic," as Jeremy put it, and it would be considerably smaller than the expected variation due to variability of terrestrial refraction (I would say roughly ten times smaller). I agree that you could, with care, measure an angle that small with a theodolite, but I really cannot believe that this was any serious issue for those dip observations made by Sadler and his group. It's also interesting, and somewhat "telling," that Sadler says he couldn't find anyone who could tell him the shape of the sea surface for a given state of the tide. Even in the 1950s, this information was well-known at a sufficient level of accuracy to do this sort of analysis. Maybe he simply asked the wrong people, astronomers rather than oceanographers?? Or, did their answers not explain what he thought he was seeing. I think that's a real possibility. -FER --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Navigation List archive: www.fer3.com/arc To post, email NavList@fer3.com To , email NavList-@fer3.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---