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A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Request for help re sunset predictions.
From: Henry Halboth
Date: 2005 Apr 6, 23:02 -0400
From: Henry Halboth
Date: 2005 Apr 6, 23:02 -0400
George, This is a long shot - but do you suppose he could have been making some use of Norie's Table XLV - "For finding the time most advantageous for observing the altitude of a celestial object, in order to obtain the apparent time" - by considering sunset as the Sun's closest approach to the Prime Vertical and working backwards by interpolation to arrive at a time. This table, entered with Latitude + Declination, gives time in hours + minutes before or after apparent noon, but could be interpolated to seconds. I an not advocating this methodology, but it might lead to an explanation. Henry On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:05:23 +0100 George Huxtablewrites: > I'm following some whaling journals of William Scoresby the younger, > who > visited the Greenland Sea (West of Spitzbergen) each year from 1811. > > Some of his time-sights, to determine LAT, were taken by observing > the > moment of sunset. I take that to be defined by the last glimpse of > the > Sun's upper limb above the horizon. Does anyone think differently? > > To my mind, it's a poor choice of moment to determine time, when the > Sun's > centre appears to be actually below the horizon, and refraction > corrections > are large, and rather variable. However, that was what he did, on > occasion. > It saved the trouble of getting his sextant out, no doubt. > > He appears to have obtained his local time, at the moment of sunset, > from > tables into which he entered lat and dec, quoting a resulting time > of > sunset to the second, e.g. "6h 13m 28s pm". > > Does anyone know where such tables were to be found, by a navigator > in 1811? > > My earliest such compendium is Raper's "Practice of Navigation", > 1864, in > which table 26 is "apparent time of the Sun's rising and setting", > tabulating lat at intervals of 1deg, but dec at intervals of 2deg, > and > giving a time to the nearest minute. Not nearly good enough for > interpolating a result to the nearest second. Not only that, the > time of > sunset, for all lats, when the dec is exactly zero, is given as > exactly > 6pm. That would only be true for a star (with no semidiameter) and > if the > refraction and dip were exactly zero: or if all three quantities > cancelled > out to zero. It seems that Raper's table 26 is intended to give no > more > than a rough notion of time of sunset, good enough for many > purposes, but > not for a time-sight. > > I also have an edition of Norie's, tables dating from 1914, which > gives > table XLIII (43), "semidiurnal and seminocturnal arcs" , giving > times from > noon to sunset to the nearest minute, and in this case the decs are > tabulated in intervals of 1 degree. But this is claimed to handle > "any > celestial object", and there's no provision to insert a Sun > semidiameter, > so presumably this table also isn't intended to give any precise > timing for > the moment of sunset. > > So I ask any Nav-L members, who own or have access to navigation > tables for > the early 19th century, whether they can identify any table, > anywhere, of > sunrises/sunsets, that Scoresby might have used to get his LHA, in > 1811 and > following years. > > George. > > ================================================================ > contact George Huxtable by email at george@huxtable.u-net.com, by > phone at > 01865 820222 (from outside UK, +44 1865 820222), or by mail at 1 > Sandy > Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK. > ================================================================ >