NavList:

Randy, you wrote:
"This may be an old topic so forgive me if you've talked this over before."

I'll take an opportunity here to describe a general philosophy. There's no topic that is over and done with. There's no question that's already been answered. None of us should ever fall into the trap of saying "Don't bring that up. We've already discussed it. It's all in the archives." For some very active technical communities on the internet, like software development forums, this can become a necessity from a signal-to-noise perspective, but we're surely not at that point. We almost always benefit from a fresh point of view. When I link to older messages on a topic, it's entirely to provide background and alternative opinions or ideas ...fodder for the current discussion. Rarely, a post from years ago may be the perfect answer to a new question with no way of improving upon it, either because the author's original prose was so good or more likely because it was an exact technically detailed answer to a very specific question. In a case like that, I prefer to give credit where due and point to that "perfect answer". But overall, there is NO topic that is not worth a fresh discussion. Even those tiresome subjects that are known "buzz kills" do benefit from fresh air.

And you wrote:
"The Nav-list is a lively and helpful format for picking up tips on celestial navigation."

It's "NavList" (no hyphen).

You proposed:
"But it can be daunting for the newcomer. I’d like to suggest that an introductory or “young midshipman’s” section be created on the list for those just starting out."

Yes, I agree. At least in principle. But this is a tough one. Certainly we could have a Resources section. And it's in my sketches for a new layout (literally, it's in sketches sitting right in front of me as I write this!). Many people come to the NavList message boards and learn without ever contributing a single post. For some of them, it might be useful to have a section with some basic hints. Also the archives do contain many, many good introductory posts. We could collect a top ten or twenty discussions and link to them. But setting up a segregated beginners' area just wouldn't work. Traffic and message volume are the key to the success of an online community, and we don't have enough to start splintering.

How can we make NavList MORE welcoming to beginners? First, we can say it, over and over again. Beginners are WELCOME. There are NO "stupid" questions and none worthy of being dumped in "frequently asked questions" pit. There are only "good" questions. We LOVE beginners' questions. Second, we can all exercise a little discipline when replying to beginners and resist the urge to get into the ethereal stuff right off the bat. Keep it simple. Third, just post away! You should never assume that basic topics and introductory concepts are off limits. Think of some basic topic that you find personally interesting and post a brief essay on it. And come up with a short, clear subject for your post so that interested parties can find it and know what they're getting into before they open it. Include words like "tutorial" or "introductory" and "easy" (I have a class I have been teaching for several years with a title that starts off "Easy Introductory Celestial..."). One of my most popular posts in the first six months of my NavList participation was titled "Easy Lunars" and intentionally so. And since beginners often start with an instrument and aren't quite sure where to turn next, the phrase "sextant manual" is a popular navigation student search term. Write posts with the assumption that there are beginners reading along. You can be absolutely certain that there are, if not today, then next week or next year or next decade.

You added:
"We’re not getting any younger and this art may die with us if we don’t encourage and facilitate the next generation of navigators."

Yes, I agree. Primarily we have to figure out WHO is actually interested in celestial navigation and other forms of traditional position-finding and create content for the community that exists (both already interested and potentially interested). If you ask, you'll find that there are many reasons today that people become interested in celestial navigation and consider studying it or at least messing around with it. It's not like thirty years ago when the primary consumers were active or prospective mariners who had a compelling practical requirement to learn celestial navigation. No one really "needs" it today.

There are many pathways that lead people to celestial navigation today. Here are some off the top of my head:
• Standard maritime practice. Since it's still a required subject at many maritime academies and in some of the world's navies, albeit with a greatly reduced practical role, many still come to celestial as an essential subject of a well-rounded mariner; you're not a sailor if you can't shoot the Sun. These are probably closest to the students from thirty years ago.
• Backup to electronics. By a modest margin, this is probably the largest block of potential students. They're interested in a limited form of "emergency" celestial navigation.
• Technophobes and Luddites. These folks simply dislike electronics and the 21st century generally. While their attitudes may be irrational, their minds are usually made up, and they do form an important group of celestial navigation enthusiasts.
• Instrument hobbyists. People who want to "learn how to use a sextant". Many people come to celestial navigation imagining that a sextant is like a pair of binoculars, and thinking that the care and maintenance of the instrument and the physical task of observation are 90% of the game. These students are most likely to benefit from a programmable calculator or smartphone app solution to the sight reduction process.
• Math and science fans, engineers, physicsts, etc. This is a growing group and a major portion of NavList members fall into this category. People with technical skills and some affinity for mathematics find celestial navigation fascinating and they want to learn all the little mathematical details.
• History enthusiasts. A great many modern fans of celestial navigation want to learn it so that they can "participate" in the great historical traditions of navigation or study the methods for broader historical interest. This group also includes fans of maritime literature.
• Fans of detailed procedures. In other words, people who might get diagnosed with a psychological disorder if they stray too close to the wrong office building! Seriously, for some students it's a tonic for the OCD soul.

Among people potentially interested in celestial navigation, you'll find all of the above categories and most who have found the NavList community get here by following more than one of these paths. Since the sources of interest are so diverse today, it's hard to define a "typical" beginner. Myself, I teach two distinct introductory celestial navigation classes (intentionally designed this way). They both teach the basics and lead to a minimal ability to determine latitude and longitude with a sextant in a single long weekend. But they target different subsets of interest.

You also suggested:
"A section for teachers could be included as well."

This, to me, would be a good example of something that would make a nice set of NavList posts. Just start it up. Post a message suggesting some ideas on incorporating celestial navigation into some imaginary curriculum. And address yourself to an imaginary audience. If you write it, they will come.

You described your son's project where he used your "sextant to measure the height of a building as a geometry class project on the Pythagorean Theorem." And that, too, is a great topic leading to many different issues of measurement accuracy and topics like finding the vertical, the mathematics of slightly "wrong" (not right) triangles, sextant parallax, and more. The online discussion format is appropriate for this sort of thing since it automatically spins the details out to follow-up posts. You, for example, could post the basic setup, and then I might add something on sextant parallax. Another NavList author might get into mathematical details. An interested reader coming along later could read a few posts in the discussion and then bail when it gets too detailed or meanders to a different topic.

You mentioned that "There are also links in navigation relevant to history, government, geopolitics, astronomy and space exploration. "

Yes. These things come up in the natural flow of NavList messages. Maybe we need some sort of reviews section where NavList members could link to their favorite posts (both a member's own posts and also other recommended posts). Unfortunately, this would require some sort of editing function, which would be a little work. I'll think about it. Let me know if you have any ideas.

-FER

PS: You concluded: "I think the "list" could be a great place to do some of these things."
Reminder: it's not a 'list'. It's a community. Internet mailing lists were the hot technology for online communication fifteen years ago and more. If you're really serious about making this a welcoming place for younger people, then we can start by jettisoning obsolete internet terminology. Look at it this way, those 17-year cicadas were last above ground when Al Gore was doing the macarena and way back then "lists" were the hot technology for internet collaboration. Imagine all the email those cicadas have piled up since then!

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