Welcome to the NavList Message Boards.


A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding

Compose Your Message

Add Images & Files
    Re: Old maps
    From: Wolfgang K�berer
    Date: 2009 May 8, 17:33 +0200

    There is an excellent book about the Piri Reis Map by Gregory McIntosh, The
    Piri Reis map of 1513, Athens, Georgia 2000, dealing with just about every
    aspect of the map. It is still available (ca. USD 40). On the web you will
    also find the older book by A. Afetinan:
    which is not nearly as exhaustive. The person who first idetified the map,
    Paul Kahle, has also published a few works trying to prove that one could
    "reconstruct" the Columbus map through it; this theory hasn't received a lot
    of acclaim, though.
    The claim that Vespucci first determined longitude by means of the moon has
    been thoroughly demolished by Hermann Wagner (Die Legende der
    L�ngenbestimmung Vespuccis nach Mondabst�nden, in: Nachrichten der
    K�niglichen Gesellschaft der Wissenschaften zu G�ttingen, Math.-phys. Klasse
    1917, 264 - 298), but an italian jesuit (and astronomer) still maintains
    that Vespucci was the first person using lunar distances for finding
    longitude (Stein, J.W., Esame critico alla scoperta di Vespucci circa la
    determinazione delle longitudini in mare mediante le distanze lunari, in:
    Memorie della Societ� Astronomica Italiana, Vol. 21 (1950), 345 - 353). The
    interesting thing is that there is a consensus that Johann Werner first
    proposed this method in 1514, i.e. years after Vespucci's alleged first use
    of the method. 
    Dr. Wolfgang K�berer
    Wolfsgangstr. 92
    D-60322 Frankfurt am Main
    Tel: + 49 69 95520851
    Fax: + 49 69 558400
    e-mail: koeberer@navigationsgeschichte.de
    -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
    Von: NavList@fer3.com [mailto:NavList@fer3.com] Im Auftrag
    von George Huxtable
    Gesendet: Freitag, 8. Mai 2009 16:47
    An: NavList@fer3.com
    Betreff: [NavList 8195] Re: Old maps
    Marcel Tschudin was writing about the map by Turkish Admiral Piri Re'is, 
    which has an accepted date of 1513, though I don't know on what basis that 
    dating was made.
    Its most convincing feature (perhaps its only convincing feature) is the way
    it shows the bulge of Brazil. But if that date is correct, that coast had 
    already been noted, around 1500, by Vespucci and Cabral, and the map could 
    represent real knowledge of its time.
    It appears to be an authentic and interesting document, which has been 
    considerably tarnished, through no fault of its own, by fantasies built upon
    it, by those such as Hapgood, the book from the 1960's referred to by Marcil
    Tschudin (which I haven't read), and by "1421- the year China discovered the
    world", a bag of hokum by Gavin Menzies, (which I have).
    Marcel mentions longitude. Vespucci tried to determine longitude (by an 
    eclipse?), but got things hopelessly wrong, because predictions of the Moon 
    weren't up to it. Longitudes had to be deduced from dead-reckoning of the 
    number of Westerly days sailing. Latitudes should have been easy, though 
    Columbus made a hash, even of those.
    contact George Huxtable, at  george@hux.me.uk
    or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
    or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK. 
    Navigation List archive: www.fer3.com/arc
    To post, email NavList@fer3.com
    To unsubscribe, email NavList-unsubscribe@fer3.com

    Browse Files

    Drop Files


    What is NavList?

    Join NavList

    (please, no nicknames or handles)
    Do you want to receive all group messages by email?
    Yes No

    You can also join by posting. Your first on-topic post automatically makes you a member.

    Posting Code

    Enter the email address associated with your NavList messages. Your posting code will be emailed to you immediately.

    Email Settings

    Posting Code:

    Custom Index

    Start date: (yyyymm dd)
    End date: (yyyymm dd)

    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site
    Visit this site