NavList:

First, so there's no misunderstanding, I have never done celestial sights
any more than a dozen miles from land. I do navigation education and
history. And I don't have the slightest complaint with the way you do the
LAN sight. Sounds quite normal to me! I was merely curious about the
terminology you use. May I ask, where did you study celestial first? Did you
go to one of the maritime academies? Also, you clearly do lots of celestial
sights on your vessel. That's unusual these days. I'm sure you do many of
them for your own satisfaction and pleasure. Is it also because your captain
is a fan of celestial?

 

I first studied it at home in high school.  My father, for some reason, had a copy of Vol 1 of Bowditch (1984 ed) and I read parts of it in high school.  I did a report for physics class on Celnav and sextants.  I will readily admit that I didn't get much of it back then.  I was, using the teacher's husband's plastic sextant, able to accurately determine the height of a flagpole by measuring the angle from a set distance, but I did not shoot any celestial bodies at that time.

 

A year later I was a student at Massachusetts Maritime Academy where my real education began.  I still was a bit of an anomaly, as before my time as a cadet was over, I had done a sea tour, with a very heavy Celnav component with the Texas A&M Maritime program as well.  The sea terms were very heavy into Celnav to ready us for the USCG exam.  I learned to actually enjoy it unlike most of my classmates, and proved to be adept at both the shooting of the sights and the reduction with tables.  At Mass, I learned HO 229 as the main tables (formulae except for Amplitudes were forbidden).  In Texas I learned the joy of HO 249 for stars.  I also managed to learn some more exotic techniques from the more accomplished merchant navigators who helped with the classes.

 

My captain is ambivalent to my using the sextant. He doesn't bother me about it, as I have sailed under him for several years and he knows that I will not let sights interfere with the safe navigation of the vessel.

 

Yeah, and if you've already looked at the GPS output, why shoot the Sun at
all (except for pleasure and practice, of course)?

 

An old adage "A prudent navigator uses all available means to fix his position at sea."


Do you happen to know which USCG licenses still have a celestial
requirement? The situation today reminds me in many ways of the situation
with respect to "lunars" in the year 1900. Some licenses required them, but
they were almost never used at sea except by enthusiasts.

 

I know for a fact that you need to have it for 3rd mate unlimited oceans, and chief mate unlimited oceans (there are no longer exams for 2nd mate and master).  I believe there is a Celnav test for 1600 ton master oceans, and perhaps 500 ton master oceans, but without a bit of research, i cannot say for sure.

 

For 3rd mate, the Celnav exam is in one part, called Nav A (nav B is a chart plot and one additional question).  Currently it is basic sun, star and planet observations.  Sunrise/set, Running fix at noon, Az, Amp, sunlines, etc.  Nothing terribly exotic.

 

For Chief Mate you get some odd ball questions.  My exam last year, for example had

sunrise,

 sunset,

 great circle sailing crossing both equator and date line,

parallel sailing,

mercator sailing,

high altitude sun fix (plot GP and draw equal altitude circles and determine position),

amplitude of the sun,

Lat and Az by Polaris,

Determine the Vertex of a Great Circle sailing,

 Determine best stars via star finder,

ID a major star based on given Hs and Az,

 

and my favorite:

 

Latitude by ex-meridian at lower transit of Acrux.

 

The only good thing is that since I took my 2nd mate's exam, they have eliminated all moon sights and reductions.  Those were always a challenge.

 

Yes indeed. Well into the middle of the 20th century, on many commercial
vessels, even LOPs were dispensed with. Time sights gave longitude and LAN
gave latitude. Navigators usually understood that these could be treated as
LOP sights but it was the tradition to do a pure longitude sight (a time
sight) and a pure latitude sight (a meridian Sun sight).

 

I wonder if you are talking about what I call an Longitude by chronometer sight.  It is taken around 8 m or 6 PM and with a relatively simple formula that is accurate only when the celestial triangle is broad, you can determine longitude.  I don't have the formula with me, but when i get home, I will dig up an old sight from my school notebook and post it.

 

Not, it really doesn't require anything complicated at all. The correction
of the altitudes for the vessel's motion and the Sun's changing declination
is not hard at all. There are many simple ways to do this. If you have the
chance sometime, you might get a kick out of a little navigation manual
called "Latitude & Longitude by the Noon Sight" written by Hewitt Schlereth,
published in 1982. He had his own particular method for applying the
corrections. It was a very simple, easy means of navigating a vessel. I'm
not recommending this book as a must-have or the best approach to analyzing
this set of sights, but it's nice to see that someone put it down on paper.

 

I would like to see this book. 

fix look like child's play."

Now I'm certain that you've never tried it out. The method is FAR EASIER
than a star fix. But the time involved actually taking sights is definitely
an issue. If you're never able to take twelve Sun sights over forty minutes,
then you can't do it. Of course, what are you doing wasting time on Sun
sights in the first place? You do celestial for fun, right? Your position
comes from GPS.

 

I am going to try it using your other post's instructions and see how I do.

Sort of! I'm in Chicago. That's my primary residence, but I have worked at
the Planetarium at Mystic Seaport several times (Mystic Seaport is
technically in Stonington, CT but that's literally a stone's throw from
Groton, CT), most recently in 2002-2003. I'm in Connecticut quite often
though.

 

I went to camp at the seaport in the late 80's.  I was part of their "Conrad program"

I spent my nights in a bunk on the JOSEPH CONRAD, and my days either sailing

on the river or going to various programs at the seaport.  It was a good time.

Cutchogue, eh? Very nice. Yeah, it would be great to sit down and talk shop.
I'm sorry you can't join us next month. I will probably be in Connecticut
again later this summer. I'll let you know my schedule.

 

Yes, my parents live in CT and so I am quite familiar with the ferry.  Let me know when

you'll be there and I will try to make it.  Weekdays are better for me if you can swing it.

 

 It's a short ferry
ride from the North Fork to New London. I would be happy to show you around
Mystic Seaport and introduce you to Don T.; he's been teaching celestial
navigation there for nearly forty years.

 

I wonder if he taught me at camp?  I don't remember any names at this point however.  I would love to meet him though. 

Jeremy