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    Re: Mr. van Asten
    From: Gary LaPook
    Date: 2013 May 1, 21:20 -0700
    Here is the entire exchange between van Asten and others on the TIGHAR forum. The final post is Ric Gillespie, the head of TIGHAR, removing van Asten from the forum, Judge for yourselves. (It starts at this link:

    https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,383.msg5666.html#msg5666 )

    (van Asten is red; I'm blue; others are black.)

    It started with this  van Asten's post:

    « Reply #120 on: September 09, 2011, 02:57:54 PM »

    A Fixed Square Search is the in first line evasion from getting astray , as soon as destination does not run in sight at ETA . Such searches (also if circular) are very waisteful on fuel so , if you are low your risk to run out on one of the first search legs is too geat . Generally it is in the manuals prescribed not to leave a position line once you are on it for the sake of rescuers having a guideline .
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    « Reply #124 on: September 09, 2011, 05:32:53 PM »


    What manual recommends this procedure Mr. Van Asten? It would likely make interesting reading.
    Respectfully Submitted;

    Irv
     ------------------------------------------

    « Reply #125 on: September 10, 2011, 03:31:25 AM »

    Navigator´s Information File NIF , 1944 April imprint , Section 3 , § 17 . 1 . "Landfalls" . Mr.Lapook has on this forum given a link to this manual , if you do not possess it .

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    « Reply #126 on: September 10, 2011, 11:55:36 AM »

    ------------------------------
    Well there is nothing in this manual that supports Mr. van Asten's statement nor in any of the other manual excerpts that I put on my website. Here is a link to that document on my web site, see if you can find any mention of "rescuers" as van Asten claims.
    https://sites.google.com/site/fredienoonan/resources/navigator-s-information-file-1944

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    « Reply #127 on: September 10, 2011, 01:29:26 PM »

    pt. 4 of the paragraph : "Stay on this line of position until another line of position shows you to be off course . pt. 5 . Then repeat the process . But stay on a line of position through destination . There is no ETA in a landfall other than your best known groundspeed" .
    ---------------------------------------------------------

    « Reply #130 on: September 11, 2011, 08:35:21 AM »

    I do not claim "rescuers" , but it is clear , qualitate qua , and separating details from headlines , that searching along a line is more productive than searching at random , so if on a line and in distress : stay where you are is the word .

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    « Reply #132 on: September 11, 2011, 08:44:41 AM »

    . Generally it is in the manuals prescribed not to leave a position line once you are on it for the sake of rescuers having a guideline .

         A very interesting point that hasn't been brought up before on the forum.

    Mona

    And meaningless without a citation for what manuals he's talking about it.

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    « Reply #133 on: September 11, 2011, 11:16:06 AM »

    Navigator´s Information File , Section 3 , § 7 - 1 .

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    « Reply #134 on: September 11, 2011, 11:35:10 AM »


    So it's just one manual, not "the manuals."  When published?  If you're suggesting that it is something that may have influenced Noonan on July 2, 1937 it has to be published prior to that date.

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    « Reply #136 on: September 11, 2011, 02:55:34 PM »

    I do not claim "rescuers" , but it is clear , qualitate qua , and separating details from headlines , that searching along a line is more productive than searching at random , so if on a line and in distress : stay where you are is the word .
    -------------------------------------------
    Just scroll up on this topic to van Asten's reply# 120 and you will see that he did "claim rescuers", this is just another example  of Mr. van Asten's prevarications. Also scroll up to reply # 118. For those who might have come in late, see my prior post at:


    -------------------------------------------------

    « Reply #137 on: September 11, 2011, 11:50:11 PM »

    Why would rescuers be "claimed" ? The NIF texts do not contain the rescue item , but it is clear from itself that if you leave the line you are flying along , without having definite coordinates , you obstruct future rescue operations , especially if no flight plan has been left behind @ departure .

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    « Reply #138 on: September 12, 2011, 01:38:18 AM »

    ---------------------------------

    Yes, why indeed did you write those words? Scroll up to reply # 120 and read those words that you wrote.

    gl

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    « Reply #139 on: September 12, 2011, 02:28:09 AM »

    Yes the rescue supposition was an addition of myself , being the assumed rescue feature self evident ; remember that there are essentials and inessentials .

    ---------------------------------------------------

    « Reply #141 on: September 12, 2011, 08:35:34 AM »(from  Gillespie)

    Yes the rescue supposition was an addition of myself , being the assumed rescue feature self evident ; remember that there are essentials and inessentials .

    One of the essentials of this forum is intellectual honesty.  I have asked Marty to remove you from the forum.
    --------------------------------------------------

    « Reply #142 on: September 12, 2011, 10:17:00 AM »

      ?? I do not see anything wrong , I was giving a partial overview of a NIF paragraph with the addition that staying on a line is in favor of future rescue parties , is that forbidden ?
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    « Reply #143 on: September 12, 2011, 10:22:52 AM »(from Gillespie)

      ?? I do not see anything wrong , I was giving a partial overview of a NIF paragraph with the addition that staying on a line is in favor of future rescue parties , is that forbidden ?

    Baloney. You wrote: "Generally it is in the manuals prescribed not to leave a position line once you are on it for the sake of rescuers having a guideline."

    By your own admission that was an intentional outright falsehood.  Good bye Mr. Van Asten.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    gl







    --- On Wed, 5/1/13, h.a.c. van Asten <hac.vanasten@gmail.com> wrote:

    From: h.a.c. van Asten <hac.vanasten@gmail.com>
    Subject: [NavList] Re: Mr. van Asten
    To: garylapook@pacbell.net
    Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013, 1:57 AM


    I was removed from the TIGHAR forum since I cited some paragraph about staying on a position line you are now on . I additionally wrote that the statement was evidently for safety concerning later if needed rescue operations . TIGHAR was already hostile from the beginning when the EJN articles appeared ; they were dangerous for their "believers" , especially after the April 2011 no.3 EJN article . A mr.Gillespie used my addition as a fallacy to ban me , "not to expire" from his forum , like he later did with many other commenters bringing into discussion the unreliability of the TIGHAR "hypothesis" of their "Earhart Project" . After the exclusion having been declared I off the record received congratulations from several US citizens . Eventually , if you have a consistent theory (no errors against logic), why would it be necessary to [quote]"shade the truth and modify quotes to suit his purposes"[unquote] ? Someone stating that has an ego the size of a ballroom and zero insight in the mores of the world of sciences .
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