NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Mid XIX century Nav
From: Henry Halboth
Date: 2005 Nov 20, 15:21 -0500
From: Henry Halboth
Date: 2005 Nov 20, 15:21 -0500
Malham's 1795 Gazetteer lists a "Nangansaqui" in Lat 32-31 N + Long 128-48 E, and further identifies Dutch Factors as resident on a nearby island of Disnia who were ..."never suffered to come within the city, except on arrival of their ships; at which time they are obliged to deliver up their guns, rudders, falls and rigging, as pledges of their good behavior." Seems like the Dutch may have gotten to Japan before many of the others did. Nevertheless, as I briefly posted previously, conventional wisdom would require knowledge of Longitude for the rating of chronometers by the usual methods available to seamen. Obviously, there was some early on knowledge of Longitude on the coasts of Japan - probably established by the Dutch traders. Henry On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:10:14 EST Frank Reedwrites: > Bruce Stark wrote: > "The 1804 Moore lists three places on Kuisin Island. "Nangasaki" is > given as > 32d, 52' N; 130d, 42' E. > The 1848 Norie lists eighteen places on Kiusiu Island. "Nangasaki > City" is > given as 32d, 45' N; 129d, 52' E. > The two navigation manuals spell "Nangasaki" the same, but have > different > spellings for the island. " > > And Paul Flint asked: > "Is the diference in spelling significant?" > > I very much doubt it. I think it's nothing more than early > difficulties > transliterating Japanese place names into European characters. > Later in the 19th > century, as more Europeans and Americans learned Japanese and its > extremely > simple phonetic system, that second "n" would have seemed like an > error. It's > listed as "Nagasaki" by the beginning of the 20th century in two > books I > consulted. > > And of course there are simple typographic errors. For example, the > 1826 > Bowditch lists "Nangasky Harbor ent." at 32 44N and 129 46E. By 1842 > and through > the 1870s, the spelling in Bowditch is corrected to "Nangasaky" but > otherwise > everything else is the same. Also, the "Kuisin" in 1804 Moore which > Bruce > quoted is bound to be an error that occurred during the manual > copying process, > possibly years earlier. The island in question is, of course, the > big island > Kyushu (as it's spelled today) and the spelling in the later 19th > century > navigation manuals was "Kiusiu", which sounds about the same as > Kyushu. But if > you write down Kiusiu in script and then ask someone to copy it > over, you > could easily wind up with Moore's "Kuisin". This same"Kuisin" is in > Norie in > 1819. > > Here's a nice brief history of Russian naval adventures in > Nagasaki: > http://www.uwosh.edu/home_pages/faculty_staff/earns/askold.html > > And try googling "Nangasaky NYPL": > http://www.google.com/search?as_q=nangasaky+nypl > > This will take you to a digital library site at the New York Public > Library > with a nice chart of the harbor of Nagasaki prepared by the famous > Russian > naval officer I.F. Kruzenshtern in about 1805. If you go to the > enlarged > version, you can just about make out the latitude and longitude of > the city on the > chart as: 32 44 (and some seconds) N and some longitude which maybe > reads 230 > 07 "W von Greenwich". It's interesting that the Russian chart, > published in > German, is already referencing longitudes to Greenwich at this > early date. > > It seems safe to assume that navigators near Nagasaki in the 1850s > could > have confidence in the charted longitude to within a few miles at > least, and so > by doing some accurate time sights with an artificial horizon from > some shore > point they could get the chronometer error and (with a few > repetitions) the > rate as well with good accuracy. > > -FER > 42.0N 87.7W, or 41.4N 72.1W. > www.HistoricalAtlas.com/lunars >