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    Re: Loran-C
    From: Scott Owen
    Date: 2009 Mar 23, 13:05 -0500

    Anabasis wrote:
    > As a marine navigator, I often forget that aircraft also use the
    > system.  What would pilots do without a GPS based system on aircraft?
    
    As gl pointed out there are still quite a few ADF stations mostly for
    terminal instrument approaches. Some 25 years ago I did use ADF for some
    enroute navigation; I doubt it is used that way today unless you are in
    some out of the way place in the world. Someone else pointed out VOR/DME
    and I would add the military guys use TACAN.  There are also published
    GPS terminal instrument approaches.  Having discontinued my aviation
    career more than a few years back I have never shot one of these but
    from what I have been told they are better than a non-precision approach
    [VOR/TACAN/ADF] but not as good as a precision approach [ILS, RADAR].
    
    > I don't think that modern passenger and cargo aircraft even afford the
    > facilities to take celestial fixes.  Am I correct in this?  Is there
    > another electronic navigation system for aircraft that I'm unaware of?
    
    Yes, you are correct that MODERN passenger and cargo aircraft do not
    have facilities for celestial.  If I'm not mistaken aircraft engaged in
    long overwater international flights are still required to have INS as a
    backup to GPS.  For example Boeing 747s and 777s have both GPS and INS.
     A lot of OLDER military passenger and cargo aircraft [C-130, C141] DO
    have facilities for Celestial, but if they even use it or teach it in
    their navigator courses today I do not know.
    
    > I don't want to get political on here, and was more offering a PSA and
    > comment about the importance of celnav.  Still, we don't know what
    > this new administration will do or if the FAA and DoD have enough
    
    Nor was I trying to be political, just stating why I personally thought
    LORAN was going away.  When it comes to navigation systems, it ALWAYS
    costs money to both private and government entities for implementation
    and maintenance.
    
    > political clout to keep the system going.  I am sure the fishing lobby
    > (the only marine people that I know who still actively use the system)
    > do not have much clout at all in Washington.  Of course this is still
    > a year away so the funding issues can still be changed.  If  I were a
    > betting man, I'd say that we aren't going to see LORAN come 2012.
    
    I won't take that bet. I think you are optimistic saying 2012.  My guess
    is BEFORE that.
    
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