NavList:

----- Original Message -----

From: Stacy Hanna

To: NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM

Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 10:14 AM

Subject: Re: Latitude AND Longitude by Noon Sun

Joel,

That is the current navigation department organization and regulations dated 26 Feb 02.  It is chopped by ComNavSurFor (in charge of all surface ships with the exception of Carriers) and ComNavAirFor (who owns the Carriers). It is rare for officers to do much celestial but the QMs should be doing it on a regular basis. All Navigators and Leading QMs are required to take a celestial course before assuming their jobs and it is their responsibility to train the junior QMs who should be doing the majority of the celestial with the assistance of the lead QM. Surface ships are required to have both 249 and 229 onboard and the Nav and Lead QM are trained to use both, however another instruction recommends the use of STELLA (the software that you mentioned) The majority of lead QMs that I know only allow their junior people to use STELLA after they have demonstrated an ability to do the sight reduction by strip form.  I am a Chief QM and currently teach the CelNav course required by Navigators and lead QMs. If you are interested the complete instruction that the earlier excerpts came from is available at:

 

https://www.navigator.navy.mil/navigator/NAVDORM.pdf

 

We expect a new revision around March, there will be many changes due to the computerized navigation systems now in use by the fleet however I haven’t heard anything about changes to the CelNav requirements.

 

Stacy Hanna  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Navigation Mailing List [mailto:NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM] On Behalf Of Joel Jacobs
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 07:40
To: NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM
Subject: Re: Latitude AND Longitude by Noon Sun

 

HI Stacy,

 

I'm really curious where you obtained that SO? It  reads like standard Navy fare from WWII and Korea. What's the issue date and whose chop?

 

Having just described my own recent experience on board a Navy destroyer, I saw no evidence of anyone doing anything like that over a four day cruise. The Navigator's shack had two Navy MK III's, one was unusable because the tangent screw was frozen to the arc. The other was OK, and I took some sights, reduced them and presented them to the CO for comparison. They were within 1 NM of GPS. I could not get him to have some of his officers shoot sights with me. Nor would the lead QM participate. The Nav and Asst Nav, ignored what I was doing like the plague. The QM showed me a computerized sight reduction system in one of their software programs which was not especially user friendly, and their tables were HO 249 which I have not seen used by the surface fleet before. I used my own 30 year old NC-2. The QM had heard about it, but never seen one before.

 

I had a really great time and was thoroughly impressed by the vessel, in top notch shape, and its crew.

 

Two years ago the LST USS Lemoyne County hit the reefs off the coast of Chile by relying solely on GPS. It was beached and later removed. The vessel was so severely damaged that it was used in an exercise and sunk by torpedos. Do a search and you may bring the story up.

 

CELNAV is only taught at our Naval Academy in its most simpistic form for one semmester due to the instance of the USNA AA.

 

I don't recall exactly when SATNAV entered the fleet, maybe as early as 1960. Since fixes could only be obtained maybe once or twice in a 24 hour period, you still needed to navigate somehow in between, but that was the beginning of the end for CELNAV. GPS has been widely available since 1979.

 

Joel Jacobs

----- Original Message -----

From: Stacy Hanna

To: NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM

Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:33 PM

Subject: Re: Latitude AND Longitude by Noon Sun

 

Jim, I’m not entirely sure what you are asking. I’m not sure if you are questioning why LAN should be observed or why the Navy is doing celestial at all. The current instruction governing navigation in the Navy requires a full day’s work in (celestial) navigation every day weather permitting. A good navigator doesn’t place complete confidence in any single navigation system and checks all available systems against each other in order to determine if there are any discrepancies that aren’t apparent from one system alone. On most Navy ships Celnav is the only available check against GPS on the open sea. The following are excerpts from the current navigation instruction. The instruction is currently being revised and the new revision is expected to hit the fleet next month, if there are any changes in the requirements for celestial navigation I will post them here.

 

Stacy Hanna

 

 The Navigator is responsible, under the

Commanding Officer, for the safe navigation of the ship. The

Navigator will receive all orders relating to his/her

navigational duties directly from the Commanding Officer and

will make all reports in connection therewith directly to the

Commanding Officer. Additional duties of the Navigator include:

(1) Advising the Commanding Officer and Officer of the

Deck as to the ship's movements and, if the ship is running into

danger, a safe course to be steered. To this end, he/she will:

(a) Maintain or cause to be maintained an accurate

plot of the ship's position by all available means, including

celestial, visual, radar, and electronic and other appropriate

means. No single source of navigation information will be used

to the exclusion of others.

 

 

 

D-1

APPENDIX D

STANDARD DAY'S WORK IN NAVIGATION

OPEN OCEAN NAVIGATION. Weather permitting, minimum daily

celestial activity will include the following:

Morning Twilight: Usually 45 minutes before sunrise, shoot

available celestial bodies, to include selected stars,

planet(s), the moon, and Polaris. Reduce sightings to LOPs,

plot on plotting sheet, and determine ship's position. Advance

celestial fix to 0800 for 0800 Ship's Position Report. Transfer

fix to track chart. Inform CIC/CDC of position.

Early Morning: Determine gyro error by azimuth/amplitude of sun

or other celestial body. Include any gyro error noted in 0800

and 1200 Ship's Position Report. Verify Figure Of Merit (FOM)

on the WRN-6/GPS and include on position reports.

0800: Submit 0800 Ship's Position Report to Commanding Officer,

after being reviewed and signed by the Navigator.

8-12: QMOW compute watch time of LAN (Local Apparent Noon).

Morning: Shoot sun to determine LOP. Plot on plotting sheet.

Mid-morning: Shoot sun to determine LOP. Plot on plotting

sheet.

Noon: Observe LAN. Recommend observations be started at 10

minutes before computed time of LAN, and for a couple of minutes

after. Reduce sighting and determine ship's latitude. Advance

mid-morning sun LOP to LAN LOP on plotting sheet to obtain

running fix. Plot running fix on track chart and pass fix

information to CIC/CDC. Advance sun LOPs to 1200, for 1200

Ship's Position Report.

1200: Submit 1200 Ship's Position Report to Commanding Officer,

after being reviewed and signed by the Navigator.

Afternoon: Shoot sun to determine LOP. Plot LOP on plotting

sheet. Advance LAN LOP to afternoon LOP on plotting sheet to

obtain running fix (minimum three Sun Lines for R-Fix). Plot

running fix on track chart and pass fix information to CIC/CDC.

COMNAVAIRFORINST 3530.4/

COMNAVSURFORINST 3530.4

26 Feb 02

Mid-Afternoon: Shoot sun to determine LOP. Plot LOP on

plotting sheet. Advance afternoon LOPs to establish an R-Fix.

Plot on track chart and pass information to CIC/CDC.

12-16: QMOW determine time of sunset and star time. Compute

celestial bodies available, including planets.

Late Afternoon: Include any gyro error computed in 1200 Ship's

Position Report.

Evening Twilight: Usually 30 minutes after sunset, shoot

celestial bodies, to include selected stars, planet(s), moon,

and Polaris. Reduce sightings to LOPs, plot on plotting sheet,

and determine ship's position. Advance celestial fix to 2000

for 2000 Ship's Position Report. Transfer fix to track chart.

Inform CIC/CDC of position.

1600-2000: QMOW determine time of sunrise and moonrise/set for

Commanding Officer's Night Orders. Also compute star time for

morning star shoot. Determine celestial bodies available,

including planet(s).

2000: Submit 2000 Ship's Position Report to Commanding Officer,

after being reviewed and signed by the Navigator.

0000-0400: Compute Latitude by Polaris, lines of position of

the moon and planet(s), as available, and gyro error by Polaris.

All celestial work must be documented in the ship's Navigation

Workbook with the Navigator's signature at the end of each

celestial day. When using computer software (i.e., STELLA),

documentation of all observations must be maintained in a looseleaf

binder.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Navigation Mailing List [mailto:NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM] On Behalf Of Jim Thompson
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 15:58
To: NAVIGATION-L@LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM
Subject: Re: Latitude AND Longitude by Noon Sun

 

From Dutton's, 15th edition (new this month): "...the LAN observation is extremely important in navigation, chiefly because it can usually be relied upon to yield the most dependable celestial LOP of the day.  The Sun should be observed at LAN as a matter of routine aboard every vessel.".

 

Why do they make that statement in 2004? Especially naval authors writing for beginners in the modern digital navy.

Jim Thompson
jim2@jimthompson.net
www.jimthompson.net
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