NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Lat/Lon by "Noon Sun" & The Noon Fix PROVE IT
From: Peter Hakel
Date: 2009 Apr 23, 16:47 -0700
From: Hewitt Schlereth <hhew36@gmail.com>
To: NavList@fer3.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:59:27 PM
Subject: [NavList 8027] Re: Lat/Lon by "Noon Sun" & The Noon Fix PROVE IT
George, I have a Mac iBook and it doesn't have a spread-sheet program.
Pressing F9 does absolutely nothing.
The AppleWorks program did open your "long around noon.xls"
attachment. What I was presented with looked much like a ledger page.
The altitudes I used for figuring longitude were from the "perturbed
alt" row on that page. They were nearly equal - i.e.,10.812 at 1210,
10.815 at 1250.
The altitude for latitude was from the same "perturbed alt" row -
10.914 at 1230.
Hewitt
On 4/23/09, George Huxtable <george@hux.me.uk> wrote:
> Hewitt Schlereth wrote-
>
>
> | George, it looks like I may have misunderstood the document I got the
> | (nearly) equal AM/PM altitudes from. I thought it was your spreadsheet
> | and cited it's designation - LONG AROUND NOON.XLS (SS) - in the
> | worksheet I attached to my e-mail. The numbers I used were from that
> | document - which I took to be yours. They looked mighty like sextant
> | altitudes; so, certainly not random numbers generated by me.
> |
> | Maybe my worksheet didn't come through to the List? Here it is again.
>
> ==================
>
>
> Hewitt and I have got ourselves at cross-purposes, it seems.
>
> I had produced 20 simulated sets of "perturbed" sextant altitudes, each of
> 13 observations taken at regular intervals around noon. These were offered
> so that list-members could analyse them in any way they chose, to try to
> discover the original latitudes and longitudes on which they were based,
> information which I withheld. The table was attached to [7940] as
>
> noon1a.rtf, or (the same data), attached to [7959], as noon1a.doc .
>
>
> In case anyone wanted to see how that data had been generated, I also added
> the Excel spreadsheet, that generated those data sets.. Each time that
> spreadsheet is run, (or when button F9 is pressed), a new set of random
> numbers is generated, which creates a new, unique set of perturbed
> altitudes. I hadn't intended anyone to use that spreadsheet itself to
> generate those sets of altitudes, but there's nothing wrong with doing so;
> indeed, that's what Dave Walden did, generating 1000 such sets to look for
> the scatter.
>
> Hewitt has done the same, but has generated only one such data-set, which
> has given an answer which Hewitt tells is is within 1' of the intial value.
> To which I suggest that if that is the case, it's only so as the result of a
> fluke, and will not be repeatable.
>
> If Hewitt will kindly load and run that Excel program again, it will invent,
> this time, a completely new set of 13 altitudes, showing a similar general
> shape but differing in every detail. And if he analyses the new set as he
> did before, he will, I suggest, get a very different answer. Every time he
> presses F9, it will change again.
>
> However, having satisfied himself on that score, he could usefully apply
> whatever technique he chooses, to one or more of the data sets attached to
> those messages cited above, also attached here. The first two sets, only,
> provide that original data. For the other 18, only I know the original lat
> and long from which the data set has been constructed.
>
>
> George.
>
> contact George Huxtable, at george@hux.me.uk
> or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
> or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK.
>
> >
>
>
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From: Peter Hakel
Date: 2009 Apr 23, 16:47 -0700
Try OpenOffice or NeoOffice. Peter
From: Hewitt Schlereth <hhew36@gmail.com>
To: NavList@fer3.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 2:59:27 PM
Subject: [NavList 8027] Re: Lat/Lon by "Noon Sun" & The Noon Fix PROVE IT
George, I have a Mac iBook and it doesn't have a spread-sheet program.
Pressing F9 does absolutely nothing.
The AppleWorks program did open your "long around noon.xls"
attachment. What I was presented with looked much like a ledger page.
The altitudes I used for figuring longitude were from the "perturbed
alt" row on that page. They were nearly equal - i.e.,10.812 at 1210,
10.815 at 1250.
The altitude for latitude was from the same "perturbed alt" row -
10.914 at 1230.
Hewitt
On 4/23/09, George Huxtable <george@hux.me.uk> wrote:
> Hewitt Schlereth wrote-
>
>
> | George, it looks like I may have misunderstood the document I got the
> | (nearly) equal AM/PM altitudes from. I thought it was your spreadsheet
> | and cited it's designation - LONG AROUND NOON.XLS (SS) - in the
> | worksheet I attached to my e-mail. The numbers I used were from that
> | document - which I took to be yours. They looked mighty like sextant
> | altitudes; so, certainly not random numbers generated by me.
> |
> | Maybe my worksheet didn't come through to the List? Here it is again.
>
> ==================
>
>
> Hewitt and I have got ourselves at cross-purposes, it seems.
>
> I had produced 20 simulated sets of "perturbed" sextant altitudes, each of
> 13 observations taken at regular intervals around noon. These were offered
> so that list-members could analyse them in any way they chose, to try to
> discover the original latitudes and longitudes on which they were based,
> information which I withheld. The table was attached to [7940] as
>
> noon1a.rtf, or (the same data), attached to [7959], as noon1a.doc .
>
>
> In case anyone wanted to see how that data had been generated, I also added
> the Excel spreadsheet, that generated those data sets.. Each time that
> spreadsheet is run, (or when button F9 is pressed), a new set of random
> numbers is generated, which creates a new, unique set of perturbed
> altitudes. I hadn't intended anyone to use that spreadsheet itself to
> generate those sets of altitudes, but there's nothing wrong with doing so;
> indeed, that's what Dave Walden did, generating 1000 such sets to look for
> the scatter.
>
> Hewitt has done the same, but has generated only one such data-set, which
> has given an answer which Hewitt tells is is within 1' of the intial value.
> To which I suggest that if that is the case, it's only so as the result of a
> fluke, and will not be repeatable.
>
> If Hewitt will kindly load and run that Excel program again, it will invent,
> this time, a completely new set of 13 altitudes, showing a similar general
> shape but differing in every detail. And if he analyses the new set as he
> did before, he will, I suggest, get a very different answer. Every time he
> presses F9, it will change again.
>
> However, having satisfied himself on that score, he could usefully apply
> whatever technique he chooses, to one or more of the data sets attached to
> those messages cited above, also attached here. The first two sets, only,
> provide that original data. For the other 18, only I know the original lat
> and long from which the data set has been constructed.
>
>
> George.
>
> contact George Huxtable, at george@hux.me.uk
> or at +44 1865 820222 (from UK, 01865 820222)
> or at 1 Sandy Lane, Southmoor, Abingdon, Oxon OX13 5HX, UK.
>
> >
>
>
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To post, email NavList@fer3.com
To , email NavList-@fer3.com
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