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Wolfgang K, you wrote:
"Of course it is a nice story, but not history."

It is such a shame that you believe this. I must say very bluntly that you are flat-out wrong here.

And you wrote:
"So far I have not even been able to verify that von Zach actually wrote this. 
The story (that is: the version with the black cook who casually talked about 
the different methods of clearing the distance) is told in a few New England 
newspapers that say von Zach wrote about it in his "Monatliche 
Korrespondenz". Unfortunately the last volume of that publication appeared in 
1813 whereas the event supposedly happened in 1817, the year when - as can be 
verified by several accounts - "Cleopatra's Barge" was in the Med."

So because you never managed to find the original article, you have concluded 
that there WAS NO original article?? I can think of another explanation.... 

As for Zach's "Correspondence" ending in 1813, I suspect that you have seen 
the volumes that he published while living in Germany. He had moved to Genoa 
and/or Marseilles (?) around 1814. He continued his publications in Genoa 
under the title "Correspondance Astronomique, Geographique, Hydrographique, 
et Statistique" from 1818 to 1826. That should help you locate the original 
article which I believe was published in 1820 (try vol.4, pp62-65 --per my 
notes but I can't verify that right now).

And you wrote:
"1) to take at face value that von Zach clearly understood what was said to
him - and we don't know anything about his command of the English language"

Interesting speculation. First, Zach read and wrote English, no doubt about 
that. One can find articles by him written in English easily enough. Whether 
he could speak it, I do not know, but regardless, HE HIMSELF records his 
conversations with the members of the crew of Cleopatra's Barge in his 
article in the "Correspondance". It does not appear from his account that he 
dealt with a translator. 

And:
"2) we'd have to take at face value that what he was told was true, because
von Zach doesn't say that he actually saw the greatest part of the seamen
use the sextant and make nautical calculations."

Yes indeed. They may have lied. It may have been a bizarre conspiracy to fool 
the astronomer... But you see, Baron von Zach himself was skeptical and asked 
to see the details. He was a true expert in positional astronomy and he would 
have detected a fraud easily. He wrote of the events (quoting the original 
here --for the translation, see below), "Je ne saurais exprimer ma surprise 
d'entendre parler ainsi cette face noire, une poule sanglante at le 
tranchelard a la main. Allez, lui dit M. Crownshield, deposez votre poule, 
apportez vos livres et vos cahiers, et montrez vos calculs a la Monsieur.. Le 
cuisinier revint avec ses livres sous le bras. Il y avait le Practical 
Navigator de Bowditch, les Requisites Table, les Tables des Logarithmes de 
Hutton, et le Nautical Almanac..." etc. (this is from my notes -- I do not 
have a scan of the original).

And you wrote:
"Now the assumption that such a statement were true is quite inferior to the 
assumption that Mr. Crowninshield - a man who obviously did not count modesty 
among his weaknesses - tried to impress a European savant by boasting about 
the abilities of his crew."

Again, von Zach asked direct questions that would reveal a mere boast and got 
answers that genuinely surprised him for their accuracy and detail. He 
examined the notebooks. He saw the calculations for himself.

And Wolfgang, you concluded:
"To sum it up: This is not PRIMARY SOURCE EVIDENCE (your emphasis, Frank).
Treating it as such is naive. It is oral history at best and has to be
weighed carefully instead of taking it at face value."

We have von Zach's OWN WORDS describing the calculations which he himself saw. 
It doesn't get much better than this. It's too bad that this dismal and 
completely speculative theory, that the story was a legend, has been dredged 
up from the abyss once again. 

-FER
PS: Here's what I wrote in October 2007, which includes a translation of the 
French passage quoted above (not my translation!):
"George Crownshield Jr., was near the 
center of one of the most frequently told stories in the history of lunars. 
George Jr. was the owner of the first famous yacht in American history, a 
yacht which he named "Cleopatra's Barge". 

Jumping to its eventual demise, Cleopatra's Barge was wrecked some years 
later in Hanalei Bay in Hawaii after becoming the royal yacht of King 
Kamehameha II of Hawaii. Now that might be connection enough to Cook who was 
killed in Hawaii just a few decades earlier, but there's another way to get 
to Cook, and its by way of a cook. Now back to the early days of 
"Cleopatra's Barge"... 

George Crowninshield Jr. inherited a vast fortune from his father who was 
one of those early Salem mariners who sailed to the Indies and returned as 
wealthy as kings. The younger George was less serious than his father and 
decided in 1816 to build himself an ocean-going yacht (he was a great 
admirer of Napoleon and there were rumors that he intended to rescue the 
former Emperor from Saint Helena). He spent an estimated $100,000 --an 
astronomical sum back then-- building Cleopatra's Barge. It was a small 
brigantine, some 83 feet on the waterline, 23 feet beam. And it was 
outfitted with every luxury that money could buy and then some. The interior 
woodwork is still famous in Salem. George Jr. was a man with strange tastes.. 
He had the starboard side of the vessel painted with a rainbow stripe in 
multiple colors. The port side was painted with a peculiar herring-bone 
pattern. Cleopatra's Barge was designed for entertaining, and it had a 
kitchen better-equipped than most on land and stocked with fine wine. 
Naturally his crew were taken from the best in New England and included 
hired musicians and a skilled chef as well. 

Crowninshield set sail for Europe aboard Cleopatra's Barge in March 1817. 
His tour of the Mediterranean attracted thousands of sightseers in every 
port he visited. During their stop in Genoa, the vessel was visited by a 
famous early 19th century astronomer and an avid lunarian (we're getting 
closer!), Baron Franz Xaver von Zach. And here it's time to let Zach speak 
for himself. He wrote of his experiences aboard Cleopatra's Barge a few 
years later:
"  How does it happen that the Commanders of French vessels, with 
thirty-four schools of Hydrography established in the Kingdom, either know 
not, or do not wish to know, how to calculate the longitude of their vessels 
by Lunar distances, while even the cooks and negroes of American vessels 
understand it? "
 I will now relate what I once witnessed on board an American vessel, the 
Cleopatra's Barge, which arrived in the month of July, 1817, at the port of 
Genoa from Salem, one of the handsomest Towns in the State of Massachusetts, 
U. S. A., Lat. 42� 35' 20" N., Long. 73� 9' 30" W. All the city crowded to 
see this magnificent palace of Neptune; more than 20,000 persons had visited 
this superb floating palace, and were astonished at its beauty, luxury and 
magnificence. I went among others. The owner was on board; he was a 
gentleman of fortune of Salem, who had amassed great riches during the late 
war with Great Britain. He was brother to the Secretary of the Navy of the 
United States. "
 This elegant vessel was built for his own amusement, after his own ideas, 
upon a plan and model new in very many respects, and was considered the 
swiftest sailer in America. He had traveled or sailed for his pleasure in 
this costly jewel that appeared more the model of a cabinet of curiosities 
than a real vessel. He had left America in this charming shell for the 
purpose of visiting Europe and making the tour of the Mediterranean & had 
already touched at the ports of Spain, France, Italy, the Archipelago, 
Dardanelles, coasts of Asia, Africa, etc. We have since heard of the death 
of this gentleman, a short time after his return to Salem. His name was 
George Crowninshield--he was of German origin--his ancestor was a Saxon 
officer who, having the misfortune to kill his adversary in a duel, sought 
refuge in America. The captain of this beautiful vessel was a lively old 
gentleman, a cousin to Mr. Crowninshield--his son, a young man, was also on 
board. I shall not here enter into detail concerning the remarkable 
construction of this vessel, still less her splendor--the public journals 
have already noticed them. "
 In making some enquiries respecting my friends and correspondents in 
Philadelphia and Boston, among others I mentioned Dr. Bowditch. ' He is the 
friend of our family, and our neighbor in Salem,' replied the old Captain. 
'My son, whom you see there, was his pupil; it is properly he, and not 
myself, that navigates this vessel; question him and see if he has profited 
by his instructions.' "
 I observed to this young man, 'you have had so excellent a teacher in 
Hydrography that you cannot fail of being well acquainted with the science. 
In making Gibralter what was the error in your longitude?' The young man 
replied, 'Six miles.' 'Your calculations were then very correct; how did you 
keep your ship's accounts?' 'By chronometers and by Lunar observations.' 
'You then can ascertain your Longitude by Lunar distances?' "
 Here my young captain appearing to be offended with my question, replied 
with some warmth, 'What! I know how to calculate Lunar distances! Our cook 
can do that!' 'Your cook!' Here Mr. Crowninshield and the old Captain 
assured me, that the cook on board could calculate Longitude quite well; 
that his taste for it frequently led him to do it. 'That is he,' said the 
young man, pointing to a Negro in the after part of the vessel, with a white 
apron about his waist, a fowl in one hand, and a carving knife in the other.. 
'"Come here, John,' said the old Captain to him, 'this gentleman is surprised 
that you understand Lunar observations. Answer his questions.' I asked, 'By 
what method do you calculate Lunar distances?' The cook answered, ' It is 
immaterial-- I use some time the method of Maskelyne, Lyons, or Bowditch, but 
I prefer that of Dunthorne, as I am more accustomed to it.' I could hardly 
express my surprise at hearing that black-face answer in such a manner, with 
a bloody fowl and carving knife in his hands. "' Go,' said Mr. 
Crowninshield,' lay aside your fowl and bring your books and journal and 
show your calculations to the gentleman.' The cook returned with his books 
under his arms, consisting of Bowditch's Practical Navigator, Maskelyne's 
Requisite Tables, Dutton's Logarithms and the Nautical Almanack, abridged 
from the Greenwich Edition. I saw all the calculations this Negro had made 
on his passage, of Latitude, Longitude, Apparent Time, etc. He replied to 
all my questions with admirable precision, not merely in the phrases of a 
cook, but in correct nautical language. " 

Baron von Zach' surprise at this man's navigational skill clearly has some 
racism in it, but it also must have arisen in part from the fact that he 
could not bring himself to understand that a "cook" on this sailing yacht 
was in fact a skilled chef and a man of considerable education. To me, the 
most relevant bit of this story for those of us who are interested in lunars 
today is the casual way in which "John" tells us not to worry about the 
method that is used for clearing lunars. "It is immaterial", he says. Use 
Bowditch's Method, or Lyons's, or Maskelyne's or Dunthorne's; it doesn't 
really matter. Now I've seen this particular quotation many times before, 
but there's always been a little something that bothered me about it. If he 
learned his lunars from Bowditch, either the man or the book, then how does 
he find himself most comfortable using Dunthorne's method. That method was 
NEVER included in Bowditch's Navigator. Sure, you can find it in the 
Requisite Tables, but how would he have learned it and become more 
comfortable using it when the distinctly easier methods in Bowditch were 
widely used at this time? The answer is in the next paragraph in Baron von 
Zach's account which is not always included when this story is re-told. Zach 
continues:
"  This cook had sailed as cabin-boy with Captain Cook in his last voyage 
round the world and was acquainted with several facts relative to the 
assassination of the celebrated navigator at Owhyhee, February, 1779. 'The 
greatest part of the seamen on board the Barge,' said Mr. Crowninshield, 
'can use the sextant and make nautical calculations.' "
 Indeed Mr. Crowninshield had with him many instructors. At Genoa he had 
taken one acquainted with Italian--he had also on board an instructor in the 
French language, a young man who had lost his fingers in the Russian 
campaign. What instruction! what order! what correctness! what magnificence 
was to be observed in this Barge; I could relate many more interesting 
particulars concerning this true Barque of Cleopatra." 

So there you have it. This famous "John" has usually been used as a foil for 
suggesting that anybody could do lunars --if he could do them, then anyone 
should be able to. But he was actually a man with a long history on the 
oceans. He had sailed with James Cook himself and may have learned lunars a 
decade or more before Bowditch first published his book. This would surely 
explain his familiarity with Dunthorne's method which otherwise seems very 
strange. It would be fascinating to know what John had done in his life 
between his time as a cabin boy with Cook to his days as a cook, more 
accurately, a world-class chef, aboard Cleopatra's Barge. "




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