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    Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
    From: Doug Royer
    Date: 2003 Oct 9, 13:34 -0700

    Hi Allen,sure.Here goes.
    A whiper is a member of the Engineering Dept.(MED)and is low man on the
    totem pole in the Eng. spaces much as a seaman is in the Deck Dept.Given
    that title because he "whipes" up alot of oil from machinery while learning
    to be a qualified member of the Eng. Dept.(QMED) as like an oiler or other
    rateing and working his way up to Engineer and officer status.Seaman do alot
    of grunt work on the deck and works up to ordinary seaman,then Able Bodied
    Seaman(ABS)and then up to officer(Mate)status.
    ISTCW is a codified treaty signed by sea going nations and organisations to
    have basic standards of competance(both vessel and personnel)in watch
    keeping and survival."International Standards and Codes of Watchkeeping".All
    M.M.D. and Q.M.E.D. personnel must hold these certs. along with the required
    C.G. documents.
    The Marine -l list is much like this one that deals mainly with the goings
    on in the shipping industry.Here is a link that will get you there or close
    to it:www.marine-l{at}listserv.{at}cgc.gc.ca
    Hope this helps and write with questions anytime.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: William Allen [mailto:allen{at}GLOBEMARKETS.COM]
    Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:34
    Subject: Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
    As a complete amateur regarding commercial vessels, could you explain a
    few terms used in your post?
    What is a whipper?
    What is the Marine-1 list?
    What are the ISTCW Articles?
    I am very curious about this life of which I know practically nothing.
    Thanks for your help.
    Bill allen
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Navigation Mailing List
    [mailto:NAVIGATION-L{at}LISTSERV.WEBKAHUNA.COM] On Behalf Of Royer, Doug
    Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 2:54 PM
    Subject: Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
    Jared and all,good discussion.
    Allow me to start by asking George a person to person question.George,I
    wrote about this very same incident in a post shortly after I joined
    group.It did not cause you any heart burn then so why or what incident
    happened to you in the interum to set you off?
    At the start of the transit the master set the rules for the
    ran from San Fran. with stops in Hawaii and the P.I. to a area east of
    Mallucan Str.3 weeks alapsed time.There is not much traffic in this
    I've spent my intire career plying the waters of the Pacific and Indian
    Oceans and waters around the Persian Gulf.I can't comment on conditions
    the Atlantic as I've only done 1 transit in these waters.
    When I was younger I jumped from ship to ship to get the experiance.Some
    where better than others.But before I signed the Articles I would look
    around at the condition of the ship,the crew and read the Station
    either looked slovenly or the Station Bill didn't provide an adequate
    compliment or watch I would walk and find another birth.
    Before I semi retired last year I worked for the same shipping
    company,starting as 3rd officer and advancing to 2nd officer,for 8
    notch in the upkeep of their vessels,crews,training etc.New gear comes
    the market it is provided.Proffesional advancement encouraged.On board
    training is very rigorous and often.All members of the crew must hold
    credentials for the jobs they do(except non-rates like whippers and some
    seamen).Does the company skimp on certain things?Sure,but not at the
    of the safety of the ship or crew.Are there less crew members  now?Sure
    there are.We now rely on technology to do moreof the things crew members
    used to.
    I can only relay my experiances to you.I am sure there are major
    that need addressed but as I've been with the same company for so long
    don't go from ship to ship anymore I am not in a position to comment on
    conditions as a whole.If you wish a small insight into the commercial
    industry check out the Marine-l list for a short time.I do everyday
    it directly effects my profession.
    Jared,to my knowlege that is not legal to do by any nation or flag that
    signed the ISTCW Articles nor is it prudent for a master to allow such
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jared Sherman [mailto:jared.sherman{at}VERIZON.NET]
    Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 20:39
    Subject: Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
     Offshore, on a direct port-to-port line from a US port to a nearby
    port. There was steady traffic along the route and a good deal of
    traffic in
    the area, i.e. across it as well. I would not consider it to be "open"
    "safe" waters, and the mere absence of the bridge watch while the ship
    underway--is that legal under any flag in any waters? Let alone prudent?
    Just to clarify: I said it was a cruise ship, not a cruiser.
    Although I also know an ex-USN captain who literally had a star shell
    across the bridge of hte next ship behind him, because they were under
    silence and that next ship was running him down. The star shell
    attracted someone's attention and the other ship fell back to where it
    As to commercial shipping always being a dollar game...Yes, I am aware
    that. Since today it is possible to cut things down so far, I think are
    even more. Crew may no longer be dragooned, but how may ships and crew
    procured from where these days? I think the international dodges go to a
    greater extent than were previously possible, and since a crew of 7-12
    be considered adequate, it becomes harder to rotate fresh eyes up on the
    bridge watch, doesn't it?

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