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    Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
    From: Doug Royer
    Date: 2003 Oct 8, 14:54 -0700

    Jared and all,good discussion.
    Allow me to start by asking George a person to person question.George,I
    wrote about this very same incident in a post shortly after I joined this
    group.It did not cause you any heart burn then so why or what incident
    happened to you in the interum to set you off?
    At the start of the transit the master set the rules for the evolution.It
    ran from San Fran. with stops in Hawaii and the P.I. to a area east of the
    Mallucan Str.3 weeks alapsed time.There is not much traffic in this route.
    I've spent my intire career plying the waters of the Pacific and Indian
    Oceans and waters around the Persian Gulf.I can't comment on conditions in
    the Atlantic as I've only done 1 transit in these waters.
    When I was younger I jumped from ship to ship to get the experiance.Some
    where better than others.But before I signed the Articles I would look
    around at the condition of the ship,the crew and read the Station Bill.If
    either looked slovenly or the Station Bill didn't provide an adequate
    compliment or watch I would walk and find another birth.
    Before I semi retired last year I worked for the same shipping
    company,starting as 3rd officer and advancing to 2nd officer,for 8 years.Top
    notch in the upkeep of their vessels,crews,training etc.New gear comes on
    the market it is provided.Proffesional advancement encouraged.On board
    training is very rigorous and often.All members of the crew must hold C.G.
    credentials for the jobs they do(except non-rates like whippers and some
    seamen).Does the company skimp on certain things?Sure,but not at the expense
    of the safety of the ship or crew.Are there less crew members  now?Sure
    there are.We now rely on technology to do moreof the things crew members
    used to.
    I can only relay my experiances to you.I am sure there are major problems
    that need addressed but as I've been with the same company for so long and
    don't go from ship to ship anymore I am not in a position to comment on the
    conditions as a whole.If you wish a small insight into the commercial
    industry check out the Marine-l list for a short time.I do everyday because
    it directly effects my profession.
    Jared,to my knowlege that is not legal to do by any nation or flag that
    signed the ISTCW Articles nor is it prudent for a master to allow such
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jared Sherman [mailto:jared.sherman{at}VERIZON.NET]
    Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 20:39
    Subject: Re: FW: Avoiding collision.
     Offshore, on a direct port-to-port line from a US port to a nearby island
    port. There was steady traffic along the route and a good deal of traffic in
    the area, i.e. across it as well. I would not consider it to be "open" or
    "safe" waters, and the mere absence of the bridge watch while the ship was
    underway--is that legal under any flag in any waters? Let alone prudent?
    Just to clarify: I said it was a cruise ship, not a cruiser.
    Although I also know an ex-USN captain who literally had a star shell fired
    across the bridge of hte next ship behind him, because they were under radio
    silence and that next ship was running him down. The star shell apparently
    attracted someone's attention and the other ship fell back to where it
    As to commercial shipping always being a dollar game...Yes, I am aware of
    that. Since today it is possible to cut things down so far, I think are cut
    even more. Crew may no longer be dragooned, but how may ships and crew are
    procured from where these days? I think the international dodges go to a
    greater extent than were previously possible, and since a crew of 7-12 may
    be considered adequate, it becomes harder to rotate fresh eyes up on the
    bridge watch, doesn't it?

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