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On our recent Atlantic crossing the captain of the Royal Clipper told
us that the current requirement for celnav knowledge for any
certificate ends next year, have you heard that?

gl

On Nov 16, 2:10�pm, Anabasi...@aol.com wrote:
> The RO's watch, and their requirement to keep GMT on their special clocks �
> is gone from most ships. �If you have an RO (and that in itself is a �
> rarity) they are dayworkers and spend their time fixing the ship's electronics �
> and computer networks. �They don't do all that much communicating except �
> perhaps firing off messages via sat. emails.
>
> The endorsement mentioned by Henry is part of the international STCW �
> (standards of training and certification of watch standing). �There are two �
> levels to this. �The first is basic celestial navigation which is your �standard
> LOP and Azimuths of the sun, planets, and stars. �You need this �
> endorsement to get limited tonnage oceans licenses and unlimited tonnage lower �level
> licenses (3rd and 2nd mate). �The second endorsement is for the �upper level
> (chief mate and master unlimited) and goes into such fun stuff as �
> ex-meridians, high altitude sights, and lower transits.
>
> Sadly this STCW endorsement is very basic and all the academy cadets are �
> now being taught just enough to pass the practical demonstration and written �
> tests. �As little as many of my classmates ten years ago knew about celnav,
> �I have seen, and gotten reports from a teacher from my alma mater, that
> today's �cadets know even less. �My last cadet didn't know the procedures to
> shoot �or reduce an upper transit. �He literally shot a sunline at the time
> he �calculated transit to be. �
>
> Jeremy.
>
> In a message dated 11/16/2009 12:03:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, �
>
> h.halb...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> To all,
>
> Obviously, I forgot to mention two (2) things in m previous post, �for
> which I certainly apologize ...
>
> 1. The universal and old seaman's adage, applicable to so many �posts
> appearing on this List, i.e., "Different ships, different long �splices.',
> meaning many things are done differently on different ships, �in different
> Companies, and with different Unions..
>
> 2. The Radio Shack clock, which may not be applicable to many �modern ships
> not carrying a Radio Operator. As traffic lists were �scheduled by GMT, it
> was necessary that the RO be aware of GMT - his �clock was sometimes set to
> GMT, sometimes a dual handed special �manufacture clock, and sometimes he
> just kept track of the time �difference. On single operator ships, he ususally
> arranged his work �hours independently to coincide with traffic list
> broadcasts - otherwise �the "auto alarm" �kept watch for distress calls. It is
> perhaps �interesting to note that in the early days of radio one of the deck �
> officers, usually the 3rd Mate, acted as the radio �operator. Again, however,
> "differnt ships, different long �splices".
>
> Jeremy has otherwise amply and well filled us in on procedures �applicable
> to the modern "all electronic" ship". I rather suspect that �his interest in
> clestial navigation has made him into somewhat of an �"enigma" to his
> compatriots. I have now discovered that the USCG �apparently issues a special
> certificate, or endorsement, as a �"Qualified Celestial Navigator" - can this
> really be true?
>
> Regards, �
>
> Henry
>
> --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Anabasi...@aol.com � wrote:
>
> From: �Anabasi...@aol.com 
> Subject: [NavList �10692] Changing Zone Descriptions at Sea
> To: �navlist@fer3.com
> Date: Sunday, November 15, 2009, 3:12 �PM
>
> I will add to Henry's description of how time is changed at �sea. �He is
> correct, the MOST ships still maintain the three �20-minute changes during the
> evening watches. �I do have one �captain who defies tradition, as is his
> derogative, and changed it one �hour at a time. �The trick was that he would
> switch watches that �this was done on as we entered each new time zone. �For
> example, �for the first change the 8x12 would do it at 2200 hours. �For the �
> next zone the 12x4 would do it at 0200, and finally the 4x8 would �do the
> third change at 0500. �This makes all time �changes outside of the work hours
> of all but the two people on the �bridge and would not cause major
> confusion (usually).
>
> The reason for the 20 minute changes is indeed to spread �the pain or sleep
> bonus among the three watches. �The normal �times are 2200, 0200, and 0600
> so as not to interfere with people's �work schedule. �To be frank, typically
> the watch officer hits the �"advance" or "retard" button on the master
> clock when he wants �to. �For example, when I do it on the 4x8 watch, i do it
> soon �after I arrive, so between 0400 and 0430. �It doesn't really �matter at
> that point.
>
> The navigational time it is COMPLETELY different. �The �DR's, fixes, all of
> that, are retarded the WHOLE hour at 0200 on the �2nd Mate's watch (he's
> the navigator.). �He usually also does the �bridge clocks (not hooked up to
> the ship's master clock) at this time �as well. �So you will see either no
> 0200 fix, or two 0200 fixes �depending on what direction we are traveling, as
> well as a note in the �deck log book about advancing or retarding the clock 1
> hour to conform �to a particular time zone.
>
> I suspect that this may have been done on the 4x8 watches �in times past
> due to the fact that the 4x8 were traditionally the 2nd �mate watches. �
> Perhaps Henry can weigh in on that �point.
>
> For some very fast ships, I have also heard of 2 hour �changes in a night. �
> I have no personal knowledge on how that is �done. �I suspect 40 minutes
> per watch.
>
> Jeremy

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