NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
From: Greg R_
Date: 2009 Dec 20, 18:05 -0800
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From: Greg R_
Date: 2009 Dec 20, 18:05 -0800
Mike Burkes wrote:
> just bringing the AN 5851 Mk5 will overgross a 172!
Not quite sure I follow you there, since the 5851 only weighs ~7 lbs.
(and that's the shipping weight) according to the Celestaire catalog:
--
GregR
------- Original Message -----From: Mike BurkesTo: navlist@fer3.comSent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 12:35 PMSubject: RE: [NavList 11301] Celesital Navigation Through CloudsGood point GR I am sure Gary has taken that into account. I weigh 185 give or take a few lbs and just bringing the AN 5851 Mk5 will overgross a 172! Definitely looking forward to it who knows maybe we might start and/or revive a cool science.
Mike Burkes
> From: gregr_ingest@yahoo.com
> To: navlist@fer3.com
> Subject: Re: [NavList 11299] Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:41:24 -0800
>
> "Gary LaPook" <glapook@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> > near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> > have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> > navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> > ocean and take sights.
>
> Not wanting to second-guess your piloting skills, but you might want to get
> a weight-check on the prospective navigators first - I don't know of any 172
> that will hold 4 "average-sized" people + full fuel (or maybe you can
> arrange with the FBO to not re-fuel it on the last flight before this one?),
> not to mention the relatively-short runway at SZP.
>
> Also, what sort of refractive correction would need to be made for the
> Plexiglas windscreen and windows, or is it insignificant enough not to worry
> about? Though I guess it could also be determined "empirically" using the
> known GPS position as a reference, and then factoring in whatever extra
> correction is needed to make the celestial LOP agree with that.
>
> > I will try to get out to the airport next week and see if it is possible
> > to use a sextant in back since I have never tried this before.
>
> It's been a while since I was in the rear seat of a 172, but if I remember
> right the top of the passenger windows slopes downwards from the front -
> might be problematic for 2 people trying to take sights together, but might
> work OK for one person if they had to crouch down to get a clear sight
> through the window.
>
> > Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?
>
> And people wonder why we put up with all the "inconveniences" to live
> here..... ;-)
>
> --
> GregR
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary LaPook" <glapook@pacbell.net>
> To: <navlist@fer3.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [NavList 11293] Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
>
>
> > Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> > near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> > have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> > navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> > ocean and take sights. You can bring your own bubble sextant and I can
> > supply a variety of bubble sextants, MA-1, MA-2, A-10A, A-7 and the
> > navigators can take a number of sights each using different instruments
> > if they choose. The navigator siting in the right seat can take the
> > sights while the navigators in the back seats can record data. We will
> > push the button on the GPS at the mid time of each sight so we can
> > determine the accuracy of the sights, the navigator with the worst
> > average buys the beer. Since the plane won't allow the navigators to
> > change seats in flight we will land at the Oxnard airport, right next to
> > the beach, to allow the navigators to change seats and a new navigator
> > to start taking sights. I estimate that it will take each navigator
> > about a half hour so the plane cost should be about fifty bucks each. It
> > may be possible to lower this cost somewhat if it is possible to take
> > sights from the back seats through the back window as this would
> > eliminate the necessity of landing to change shooters. I will try to get
> > out to the airport next week and see if it is possible to use a sextant
> > in back since I have never tried this before. If more than three
> > navigators are interested in participating we can switch out crews at
> > the Oxnard airport.
> >
> > I believe the best dates for this would be January 9-10; February 6-7;
> > or February 20-21 or possibly later in the year. We should plan on
> > flying on a Saturday and keep Sunday as a backup in case of bad weather
> > on Saturday. The reason I suggest these dates is that the sun and the
> > moon will both be visible with good cuts for daytime fixes.
> >
> > If anybody is coming from afar, the Burbank (BUR) airport is the most
> > convenient. LAX is a bit farther and Long Beach (LGB) is about as
> > convenient as LAX (it might not look like it on a map but a map doesn't
> > show the traffic coming from LAX on the 405 over the Sepulveda pass.)
> > Ontario (ONT) is also doable so shop for the best airfare. Things to do
> > in the area include Santa Barbara for wine tours, an hour drive up the
> > coast. San Diego is about a three hour drive down the coast or one can
> > take a train. You can go aboard the Star of India and the carrier
> > Midway. Long Beach for the Queen Mary and a Russian submarine. Near Long
> > Beach in San Pedro is the Lane Victory (a victory ship) and a good
> > maritime museum. One can also drive five hours and see Yosemite which is
> > beautiful in winter. A different five hour drive up the coast takes you
> > to San Francisco or you can take a train or fly.You can visit the
> > Pampanito submarine (SS-383) and several historic vessels including a
> > liberty ship, the Jeremiah O'Brien. A four hour drive from here is
> > Vegas, baby. There are plenty of flights from BUR to Vegas also. A three
> > hour drive takes you to Palm Springs. A two hour drive takes you to the
> > ski slopes.
> >
> > Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?
> >
> >
> > http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=93021
> >
> >
> > gl
> >
> >
> > frankreed@HistoricalAtlas.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter Monta, you wrote:
> > > "Wouldn't a UAV be the logical solution here? I'm not sure units with
> > > 40000ft capability are all that cheap yet, though. A very small
> > > payload might suffice for sun sights (small camera). Establishing the
> > > offset from UAV position to ship would probably come free with the
> > > overall control scheme to get the thing back, and the 2D offset would
> > > only be a mile or two anyway. Fixed wing might be best for smallest
> > > platform jitter when taking the sight."
> > >
> > > Nice! That's a very clever solution to the problem of the 40,000 foot
> > > mast. And if the sensor package is cheap enough (a camera and a radio
> > > with a ten-mile range?) then you could make them expendable and launch
> > > on weather balloons. The price of the balloon might turn out to be
> > > greater than the cel nav package. Whether that's more economical than
> > > a mini/micro-UAV or not would depend on the cost of the "toy plane"
> > > and the expected loss rate. In any case, a system like this means no
> > > sextant and no navigator holding said sextant, so it certainly takes
> > > the charm out of it, but at least it would still be real celestial
> > > navigation.
> > >
> > > -FER
> > >
> > > --
> > > NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> > > Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> > > To , email NavList+@fer3.com
> >
> > --
> > NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
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>
> --
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