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"Gary LaPook"  wrote:

> Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> ocean and take sights.

Not wanting to second-guess your piloting skills, but you might want to get
a weight-check on the prospective navigators first - I don't know of any 172
that will hold 4 "average-sized" people + full fuel (or maybe you can
arrange with the FBO to not re-fuel it on the last flight before this one?),
not to mention the relatively-short runway at SZP.

Also, what sort of refractive correction would need to be made for the
Plexiglas windscreen and windows, or is it insignificant enough not to worry
about? Though I guess it could also be determined "empirically" using the
known GPS position as a reference, and then factoring in whatever extra
correction is needed to make the celestial LOP agree with that.

> I will try to get out to the airport next week and see if it is possible
> to use a sextant in back since I have never tried this before.

It's been a while since I was in the rear seat of a 172, but if I remember
right the top of the passenger windows slopes downwards from the front -
might be problematic for 2 people trying to take sights together, but might
work OK for one person if they had to crouch down to get a clear sight
through the window.

> Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?

And people wonder why we put up with all the "inconveniences" to live
here.....  ;-)

--
GregR



----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary LaPook" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [NavList 11293] Celesital Navigation Through Clouds


> Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> ocean and take sights. You can bring your own bubble sextant and I can
> supply a variety of bubble sextants, MA-1, MA-2, A-10A, A-7 and the
> navigators can take a number of sights each using different instruments
> if they choose. The navigator siting in the right seat can take the
> sights while the navigators in the back seats can record data. We will
> push the button on the GPS at the mid time of each sight so we can
> determine the accuracy of the sights, the navigator with the worst
> average buys the beer. Since the plane won't allow the navigators to
> change seats in flight we will land at the Oxnard airport, right next to
> the beach, to allow the navigators to change seats and a new navigator
> to start taking sights. I estimate that it will take each navigator
> about a half hour so the plane cost should be about fifty bucks each. It
> may be possible to lower this cost somewhat if it is possible to take
> sights from the back seats through the back window as this would
> eliminate the necessity of landing to change shooters. I will try to get
> out to the airport next week and see if it is possible to use a sextant
> in back since I have never tried this before. If more than three
> navigators are interested in participating we can switch out crews at
> the Oxnard airport.
>
> I believe the best dates for this would be January 9-10; February 6-7;
> or February 20-21 or possibly later in the year.  We should plan on
> flying on a Saturday and keep Sunday as a backup in case of bad weather
> on Saturday. The reason I suggest these dates is that the sun and the
> moon will both be visible with good cuts for daytime fixes.
>
> If anybody is coming from afar, the Burbank (BUR) airport is the most
> convenient. LAX is a bit farther and Long Beach (LGB) is about as
> convenient as LAX (it might not look like it on a map but a map doesn't
> show the traffic coming from LAX on the 405 over the Sepulveda pass.)
> Ontario (ONT) is also doable so shop for the best airfare. Things to do
> in the area include Santa Barbara for wine tours, an hour drive up the
> coast. San Diego is about a three hour drive down the coast or one can
> take a train. You can go aboard the Star of India and the carrier
> Midway. Long Beach for the Queen Mary and a Russian submarine. Near Long
> Beach in San Pedro is the Lane Victory (a victory ship) and a good
> maritime museum. One can also drive five hours and see Yosemite which is
> beautiful in winter. A different five hour drive up the coast takes you
> to San Francisco or you can take a train or fly.You can visit the
> Pampanito submarine (SS-383) and several historic vessels including a
> liberty ship, the Jeremiah O'Brien. A four hour drive from here is
> Vegas, baby. There are plenty of flights from BUR to Vegas also. A three
> hour drive takes you to Palm Springs. A two hour drive takes you to the
> ski slopes.
>
> Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?
>
>
> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=93021
>
>
> gl
>
>
> frankreed@HistoricalAtlas.com wrote:
> >
> > Peter Monta, you wrote:
> > "Wouldn't a UAV be the logical solution here? I'm not sure units with
> > 40000ft capability are all that cheap yet, though. A very small
> > payload might suffice for sun sights (small camera). Establishing the
> > offset from UAV position to ship would probably come free with the
> > overall control scheme to get the thing back, and the 2D offset would
> > only be a mile or two anyway. Fixed wing might be best for smallest
> > platform jitter when taking the sight."
> >
> > Nice! That's a very clever solution to the problem of the 40,000 foot
> > mast. And if the sensor package is cheap enough (a camera and a radio
> > with a ten-mile range?) then you could make them expendable and launch
> > on weather balloons. The price of the balloon might turn out to be
> > greater than the cel nav package. Whether that's more economical than
> > a mini/micro-UAV or not would depend on the cost of the "toy plane"
> > and the expected loss rate. In any case, a system like this means no
> > sextant and no navigator holding said sextant, so it certainly takes
> > the charm out of it, but at least it would still be real celestial
> > navigation.
> >
> > -FER
> >
> > --
> > NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> > Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> > To , email NavList+@fer3.com
>
> --
> NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> To , email NavList+@fer3.com

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