NavList:
A Community Devoted to the Preservation and Practice of Celestial Navigation and Other Methods of Traditional Wayfinding
Re: Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
From: Mike Burkes
Date: 2009 Dec 20, 09:52 -0800
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From: Mike Burkes
Date: 2009 Dec 20, 09:52 -0800
Hi GL that and dates are cool with me. Keep me posted.
Mike Burkes
m_burkes@msn.com
626-833-1521
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:00:10 -0800
> From: glapook@pacbell.net
> To: navlist@fer3.com
> Subject: Re: [NavList 11293] Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
>
> Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> ocean and take sights. You can bring your own bubble sextant and I can
> supply a variety of bubble sextants, MA-1, MA-2, A-10A, A-7 and the
> navigators can take a number of sights each using different instruments
> if they choose. The navigator siting in the right seat can take the
> sights while the navigators in the back seats can record data. We will
> push the button on the GPS at the mid time of each sight so we can
> determine the accuracy of the sights, the navigator with the worst
> average buys the beer. Since the plane won't allow the navigators to
> change seats in flight we will land at the Oxnard airport, right next to
> the beach, to allow the navigators to change seats and a new navigator
> to start taking sights. I estimate that it will take each navigator
> about a half hour so the plane cost should be about fifty bucks each. It
> may be possible to lower this cost somewhat if it is possible to take
> sights from the back seats through the back window as this would
> eliminate the necessity of landing to change shooters. I will try to get
> out to the airport next week and see if it is possible to use a sextant
> in back since I have never tried this before. If more than three
> navigators are interested in participating we can switch out crews at
> the Oxnard airport.
>
> I believe the best dates for this would be January 9-10; February 6-7;
> or February 20-21 or possibly later in the year. We should plan on
> flying on a Saturday and keep Sunday as a backup in case of bad weather
> on Saturday. The reason I suggest these dates is that the sun and the
> moon will both be visible with good cuts for daytime fixes.
>
> If anybody is coming from afar, the Burbank (BUR) airport is the most
> convenient. LAX is a bit farther and Long Beach (LGB) is about as
> convenient as LAX (it might not look like it on a map but a map doesn't
> show the traffic coming from LAX on the 405 over the Sepulveda pass.)
> Ontario (ONT) is also doable so shop for the best airfare. Things to do
> in the area include Santa Barbara for wine tours, an hour drive up the
> coast. San Diego is about a three hour drive down the coast or one can
> take a train. You can go aboard the Star of India and the carrier
> Midway. Long Beach for the Queen Mary and a Russian submarine. Near Long
> Beach in San Pedro is the Lane Victory (a victory ship) and a good
> maritime museum. One can also drive five hours and see Yosemite which is
> beautiful in winter. A different five hour drive up the coast takes you
> to San Francisco or you can take a train or fly.You can visit the
> Pampanito submarine (SS-383) and several historic vessels including a
> liberty ship, the Jeremiah O'Brien. A four hour drive from here is
> Vegas, baby. There are plenty of flights from BUR to Vegas also. A three
> hour drive takes you to Palm Springs. A two hour drive takes you to the
> ski slopes.
>
> Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?
>
>
> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=93021
>
>
> gl
>
>
> frankreed@HistoricalAtlas.com wrote:
> >
> > Peter Monta, you wrote:
> > "Wouldn't a UAV be the logical solution here? I'm not sure units with
> > 40000ft capability are all that cheap yet, though. A very small
> > payload might suffice for sun sights (small camera). Establishing the
> > offset from UAV position to ship would probably come free with the
> > overall control scheme to get the thing back, and the 2D offset would
> > only be a mile or two anyway. Fixed wing might be best for smallest
> > platform jitter when taking the sight."
> >
> > Nice! That's a very clever solution to the problem of the 40,000 foot
> > mast. And if the sensor package is cheap enough (a camera and a radio
> > with a ten-mile range?) then you could make them expendable and launch
> > on weather balloons. The price of the balloon might turn out to be
> > greater than the cel nav package. Whether that's more economical than
> > a mini/micro-UAV or not would depend on the cost of the "toy plane"
> > and the expected loss rate. In any case, a system like this means no
> > sextant and no navigator holding said sextant, so it certainly takes
> > the charm out of it, but at least it would still be real celestial
> > navigation.
> >
> > -FER
> >
> > --
> > NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> > Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> > To , email NavList+@fer3.com
>
> --
> NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> To , email NavList+@fer3.com
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
Mike Burkes
m_burkes@msn.com
626-833-1521
> Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:00:10 -0800
> From: glapook@pacbell.net
> To: navlist@fer3.com
> Subject: Re: [NavList 11293] Celesital Navigation Through Clouds
>
> Here are my thoughts. I can rent a Cessna 172 at Santa Paula airport,
> near Ventura California for about a hundred bucks an hour and we will
> have to share this cost. It holds four people, one pilot and three
> navigators. We fill all the seats and take off and fly out over the
> ocean and take sights. You can bring your own bubble sextant and I can
> supply a variety of bubble sextants, MA-1, MA-2, A-10A, A-7 and the
> navigators can take a number of sights each using different instruments
> if they choose. The navigator siting in the right seat can take the
> sights while the navigators in the back seats can record data. We will
> push the button on the GPS at the mid time of each sight so we can
> determine the accuracy of the sights, the navigator with the worst
> average buys the beer. Since the plane won't allow the navigators to
> change seats in flight we will land at the Oxnard airport, right next to
> the beach, to allow the navigators to change seats and a new navigator
> to start taking sights. I estimate that it will take each navigator
> about a half hour so the plane cost should be about fifty bucks each. It
> may be possible to lower this cost somewhat if it is possible to take
> sights from the back seats through the back window as this would
> eliminate the necessity of landing to change shooters. I will try to get
> out to the airport next week and see if it is possible to use a sextant
> in back since I have never tried this before. If more than three
> navigators are interested in participating we can switch out crews at
> the Oxnard airport.
>
> I believe the best dates for this would be January 9-10; February 6-7;
> or February 20-21 or possibly later in the year. We should plan on
> flying on a Saturday and keep Sunday as a backup in case of bad weather
> on Saturday. The reason I suggest these dates is that the sun and the
> moon will both be visible with good cuts for daytime fixes.
>
> If anybody is coming from afar, the Burbank (BUR) airport is the most
> convenient. LAX is a bit farther and Long Beach (LGB) is about as
> convenient as LAX (it might not look like it on a map but a map doesn't
> show the traffic coming from LAX on the 405 over the Sepulveda pass.)
> Ontario (ONT) is also doable so shop for the best airfare. Things to do
> in the area include Santa Barbara for wine tours, an hour drive up the
> coast. San Diego is about a three hour drive down the coast or one can
> take a train. You can go aboard the Star of India and the carrier
> Midway. Long Beach for the Queen Mary and a Russian submarine. Near Long
> Beach in San Pedro is the Lane Victory (a victory ship) and a good
> maritime museum. One can also drive five hours and see Yosemite which is
> beautiful in winter. A different five hour drive up the coast takes you
> to San Francisco or you can take a train or fly.You can visit the
> Pampanito submarine (SS-383) and several historic vessels including a
> liberty ship, the Jeremiah O'Brien. A four hour drive from here is
> Vegas, baby. There are plenty of flights from BUR to Vegas also. A three
> hour drive takes you to Palm Springs. A two hour drive takes you to the
> ski slopes.
>
> Did I mention that it was 77 degrees here today?
>
>
> http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=93021
>
>
> gl
>
>
> frankreed@HistoricalAtlas.com wrote:
> >
> > Peter Monta, you wrote:
> > "Wouldn't a UAV be the logical solution here? I'm not sure units with
> > 40000ft capability are all that cheap yet, though. A very small
> > payload might suffice for sun sights (small camera). Establishing the
> > offset from UAV position to ship would probably come free with the
> > overall control scheme to get the thing back, and the 2D offset would
> > only be a mile or two anyway. Fixed wing might be best for smallest
> > platform jitter when taking the sight."
> >
> > Nice! That's a very clever solution to the problem of the 40,000 foot
> > mast. And if the sensor package is cheap enough (a camera and a radio
> > with a ten-mile range?) then you could make them expendable and launch
> > on weather balloons. The price of the balloon might turn out to be
> > greater than the cel nav package. Whether that's more economical than
> > a mini/micro-UAV or not would depend on the cost of the "toy plane"
> > and the expected loss rate. In any case, a system like this means no
> > sextant and no navigator holding said sextant, so it certainly takes
> > the charm out of it, but at least it would still be real celestial
> > navigation.
> >
> > -FER
> >
> > --
> > NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> > Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> > To , email NavList+@fer3.com
>
> --
> NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
> Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
> To , email NavList+@fer3.com
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
NavList message boards: www.fer3.com/arc
Or post by email to: NavList@fer3.com
To , email NavList+@fer3.com