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    Re: Cel Nav and missile submarines
    From: Alexandre Eremenko
    Date: 2012 Apr 11, 17:26 -0400

    Thanks, Gary.
    Tis is interesting to know.
    
    Loran does not help to solve the problem whether a submarine can
    sail for many days without surfacing;
    LORAN, like everything else based on electromagnetic waves works only
    when the boat is on the surface, correct?
    
    Alex
    
    On Wed, 11 Apr 2012, Gary LaPook wrote:
    
    >
    > I have included links two charts showing the coverage of LORAN-A in 1950 and in 1973.
    >
    > http://www.jproc.ca/hyperbolic/lorana_coverage_map_1950b.jpg
    >
    > http://www.jproc.ca/hyperbolic/lorana_coverage_b.jpg
    >
    > gl
    >
    > --- On Tue, 4/10/12, Alexandre E Eremenko  wrote:
    >
    > From: Alexandre E Eremenko 
    > Subject: [NavList] Cel Nav and missile submarines
    > To: NavList@fer3.com
    > Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 5:14 PM
    >
    >
    > Thanks to Fred and Gary
    > who helped to clarify the picture.
    > And I apologise again for the message which begins with
    > "Fred,..." while this was really an answer to Gary:-)
    >
    > Here is a short chronology.
    > The first submarine ballistic missle was Zemlia R-11FM (SS-1 Scud A).
    > It had an inertial guiding system.
    > It was launched from the submarine Zulu B-67, some say in 1956,
    > and even give exact date: September 16,
    > others say in 1955, and became operational by 1959.
    > It had a nuclear warhead, and was liquid-propelled.
    > There was only one missile on the sub, it was launched from surface
    > position, and had to be put vertically before the launch.
    >
    > (I imagine this mess: fuleing the missile standing vertically on
    > the deck, with liquid fuel. The fuel was nitric acid + liquid oxigen :-)
    > I would be delighted to see this:-)
    >
    > As the very first satellite was launched only in 1957, the submarine
    > clearly relied on Cel Nav. And the whole accuracy of the missle
    > depended on Cel Nav. Inertial navigation for the submarine itself is a short time
    > solution; inertial navigation cannot give your position for long time
    > without checking it with some other means.
    >
    > Further development on the Soviet side were
    > R-13, R-21 (1962) and R-27 (1967) missiles,
    > (SS-N-4, SS-N-5, SS-N-6), all with inertial navigation,
    > and Yankee class submarines. They already had missiles permanently
    > in vertical position but the missiles were still liquid fuel propelled.
    >
    > Now, in the 50-s (don't know exactly when) Soviet dip meter spreads,
    > and on the US side, Shufeldt makes his research in 1958-61.
    > Which was first classified, but then quickly unclassified,
    > and the satellite system Transit 1 comes in use in 1964,
    > and is made open to everyone in 1967.
    >
    > This system does not measure any angles (as I wrongly assumed in the 
    beginning) but uses the Doppler effect created by the motion of the
    > satellites. Few satellites do
    > not cover all Earth surface.
    > The accuracy 0'1-0'2 is better than Cel Nav.
    > Only by 1980-s the Soviets apparently developed their own satellite
    > system.
    >
    > Concerning other non-Cel nav systems. Inertial system for submarines
    > is probably insdispensible when the submarine sails under ice
    > (or under a helicopter which tries to find it).
    > When it is near the water surface, a sextant can be used through the
    > periscope, and I read somewhere about such sextants.
    > The systems based on shore radio stations, like LORAN, have limited
    > range.
    >
    > Now, in te case of a nuclear attack, all satellite systems might
    > be switched off, and it will remain to rely on Cel Nav for missile launch 
    from a submarine... if there still will be people who know how
    > to use it:-)
    >
    > Alex.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > : http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?i=118951
    >
    >
    >
    
    
    
    

       
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