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    Re: Amelia Earhart's aerial navigation
    From: Greg Rudzinski
    Date: 2009 Nov 19, 15:00 -0800

    Gary,
    
    Can a 25mm Very flare pistol be fired out the window of an aircraft
    going 100+ knots and if AE and Noonan had done this at 1000 feet or so
    would the Ithasca been able to see the flare. I think both AE,
    Ithasca, and Howland should have been firing flares like crazy. The
    first rescue I was involved in had the distressed sailboat fire a
    flare which I saw at 20 NM from a 100 foot height of eye.
    
    Greg
    
    On Nov 19, 1:17�pm, "glap...---.net"  wrote:
    > Item 23 of the inventory
    >
    > 23 � � �*1 � � �" � � � � �Signal Pistol, No. A-56, Mark III, one inch
    >
    > was the flare gun or "Very Pistol." It used the the standard one inch
    > diameter cartridges (which we now call 25 mm) and item 33 shows 14 of
    > the cartridges.
    >
    > see:
    >
    > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dkimages.com/discov...
    >
    > gl
    >
    > gl
    >
    > On Nov 19, 11:10�am, Gary LaPook  wrote:
    >
    > > To answer your question i am copying this post form an Earhart forum:
    >
    > > � � Dear Colleagues,
    > > � �Some "check and diggging" in the books gives a general impression
    > > that the life raft was still aboard the AE's Electra at takeoff in
    > > Lae... altough still not for 100% probability i'd say.
    >
    > > � The book "Amelia, My Courageous Sister" (M.Morrissey, C.Osborne), on
    > > the pages 191-192, reproduces a photocopies of 2 pages from the "New
    > > York Herald Tribune" from March 7, 1937.
    > > � � �In particular, it says:
    >
    > > � "In the fuselage will be a two-man rubber lifeboat, instantly
    > > inflatable from capsules of carbon dioxyde. Likewise a Very pistol for
    > > firing distress signals, flares that ignite on the surfaceof the water,
    > > and, as she [AE - alex] says, "a very orange" orange kite. "If we sit
    > > down somewhere in the Pacific and stay afloat, I'd like to be noticed,"
    > > says Miss Earhart ".
    >
    > > � � In the same book, starting from page 256, an extensive "summary
    > > report" of the Commander Lexington Group to the Commandant, 14th Naval
    > > district is quoted. The report lists the related data available and used
    > > during the search - being "grouped" into "categories", of which two
    > > first ones are: "A.Known Facts", and "B. Probabilities arising from
    > > rumor or reasonable assumptions".
    >
    > > � In a category "A", the point 3 says: 3). That a two man rubber life
    > > boat, life belts, flares and emergency water and rations were carried.
    > > (page 257 of the book).
    > > � In a caregory "B", the point 3 says: 3). That the color of the
    > > lifeboatwas yellow. (Page 258 of the book).
    >
    > > � � �In the book "The Hunt For Amelia Earhart" (D.Westfall, R.K.Mater),
    > > on page 3 there is a statement:
    >
    > > � �"...emergency equipment was carried as well, including a multi-color
    > > flare gun, a bright-yellow inflatible lifeboat, parachutes...". Page 51
    > > of the same book mentions the message sent by GP to Washington in July
    > > 2, 1937, - requesting the Navy's aid in a search for AE, and quoted by
    > > "San Francisco Cronicle":
    > > � "There was a two-man rubber lifeboat aboard the plane, together with
    > > lifebelts, flares, a Very pistol and a large yellow signal kite which
    > > could be flown above the plane or the liferaft".
    > > � The same information is quoted in the book "Amelia" (D.Goldstein,
    > > K.Dillon), page 241.
    >
    > > � � In the Mary Lovell's book "The Sound of Wings", on page 259, there
    > > is an evidence of Joe Gurr - one of AE's radio consultants and advisors
    > > - about the preparations for the "first attempt".
    > > � �Gurr "had spent an entire day with Manning laying out all the safety
    > > equipment in front of the hangar, testing - as far as possible -
    > > everything. They inflated the life raft..." -
    >
    > > �- i.e., certainly the life raft WAS a part of the equipment AE did have
    > > in that moment. �
    >
    > > � �In the same book on the page 267, there is a following quote however
    > > - about the final preparations at Lae:
    >
    > > � �"...Her obsession with weight may have been taken to extreme length,
    > > for according to Harry Balfour, radio operator at Lae, survival
    > > equipment was also taken off. Balfour claimed that "she unloaded all her
    > > surplus equipment on me including her [Very] pistol and ammunition,
    > > books, letters and facility books"".
    >
    > > � � This word "including" makes the whole phrase puzzling... as if the
    > > listed items {Very pistol, books etc.} were only a part of what was
    > > unloaded - so what else from the "surplus/survival equipment" could be
    > > unloaded too?... No answer for this.
    >
    > > � �On the page 288, describing the imaginary scenario of the 
    emergencywater landing, Lovell wrote: "the life raft and emergency equipment 
    were
    >
    > > housed behind the rear cabin bulkhead at the rear of the plane"...
    > > clearly assuming that it was still aboard. �
    >
    > > � �In general, it seems to me, it all makes an impression that most
    > > probably the life raft �should be still aboard - IF only AE and FN,
    > > because of their "obsession with weight", did not unload it before the
    > > Lae-Howland leg... But, as it seems, the searchers of the time
    > > (Lexington Group) obviously assumed that AE and FN still did have it
    > > aboard, on that leg.
    >
    > > � Kind regards - sincerely, Alex
    >
    > > 
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
    ------------------------------------------------
    > > I responded:
    >
    > > Alex wrote, quoting Lovell's book:
    >
    > > � "...Her obsession with weight may have been taken to extreme length,
    > > for according to Harry Balfour, radio operator at Lae, survival
    > > equipment was also taken off. Balfour claimed that "she unloaded all her
    > > surplus equipment on me including her [Very] pistol and ammunition,
    > > books, letters and facility books"".
    >
    > > What Balfour actually said was:
    >
    > > "...[A]ll messages received from her were forwarded to her husband
    > > together with some private papers she left with me at the radio station,
    > > she also gave me her automatic pistol and ammunition and some radio
    > > facility books, but these I do not have now they became lost during the
    > > war."
    >
    > > Letter from Balfour reprinted as exhibit 38 in Safford's book.
    >
    > > Long also writes:
    >
    > > "Earhart handed the package ...to Balfour...Balfour opened the paper and
    > > inside was a 32-caliber handgun with a small box of ammunition."
    >
    > > Long, page 192.
    >
    > > So, there is no support for the idea that they left survival equipment
    > > behind.
    >
    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------
    >
    > > The inventory done after the ground loop �in Hawaii lists a raft and
    > > other survival equipment. See:
    >
    > >http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Documents/Luke_Field.html
    >
    > > gl
    >
    > > Ronald P Barrett wrote:
    > > > Greg, I taught sea survival for the international airlines and did
    > > > actual exercises. One can well survive in the central Pacific open
    > > > ocean in a life jacket for hours to days. Depends on the entry injuries.
    >
    > > > Therefore I would ask: 1. Did AE have raft? �2. What type? Two man?
    > > > One man? This relates directly to its size. �3. How was it bundled?
    > > > The configuration is important. 4. What did it weigh? Important to
    > > > weight & balance of this size of plane. 5. Was it tied down? 6. How
    > > > was it tied down? 7. What were the rafts egress points? This is
    > > > important, because it leads to what window or door could they get it
    > > > out of. This then begs the question of what was the possible attitude
    > > > of the plane in the water? If the plane went tail up: I doubt that
    > > > they could have gotten the aft cabin door open to the point of the
    > > > raft going out. 8. How was this type of raft to be inflated? 9.Did
    > > > they have sea-dye? 10.Flares? 11. Did they have life jackets?
    >
    > > > It is interesting that no floating debree was ever reported//// or was
    > > > it? I had read the center fuel tank vent scoops were bottom centerline
    > > > of the plane. Any one ever see tests data on possible water intake
    > > > upon ditching on these?
    >
    > > > Sea conditions are a big factor on the out �come of a ditching. What
    > > > exactly were the reported sea conditions at that the possible ditching
    > > > time? What are the out-comes known of Twin Beech ditchings over the
    > > > years? Would the empty fuel tanks have rendered the plane "floatable?"
    >
    > > > As a former Pacific Nav I really do wonder why nothing was found. I
    > > > find that hard to believe.
    >
    > > > DR'n away, Ron Barrett, President Air Force Navigators Observers
    > > > Association (AFNOAwww.afnoa.org) USAF Ret.
    >
    > > > --- On *Thu, 11/19/09, Greg Rudzinski //* wrote:
    >
    > > > � � From: Greg Rudzinski 
    > > > � � Subject: [NavList 10753] Re: Amelia Earhart's aerial navigation
    > > > � � To: "NavList" 
    > > > � � Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 11:54 AM
    >
    > > > � � Excellent post Gary. Thanks.
    >
    > > > � � A few more questions. The abrupt ending of voice radio transmission
    > > > � � implies trouble. Is it possible that the batteries/magneto and or fuel
    > > > � � pump failed then causing a ditch short of Howland on the LOP
    > > > � � approach ? What were there chances without a life raft?
    >
    > > > � � Greg
    >
    > > > � � On Nov 18, 9:59 pm, Gary LaPook  > > � � > wrote:
    > > > � � > Greg Rudzinski asked:
    >
    > > > � � > Maybe Gary can comment on the following:
    > > > � � > 1. Time tick before departure.
    > > > � � > 2. Sobriety of Noonan.
    > > > � � > 3. Life raft.
    > > > � � > 4. Radio antenna.
    > > > � � > 5. Head winds.
    > > > � � > 6. Celestial opportunities.
    > > > � � > 7. Sleep deprivation.
    > > > � � > 8. Was it possible to fly right over Howland Island and not see it?
    > > > � � > 9. Was Howland charted correctly.
    > > > � � > 10.What would have been a better less risky route?
    >
    > > > � � > Gary wrote:
    >
    > > > � � > Fred may have had a drinking problem but many people with such a
    > > > � � problem
    > > > � � > manage to show up sober for work on Monday mornings because
    > > > �...
    >
    > read more �
    
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