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Ron,
I would direct your attention to Gary's last paragraph of Navlist
[10844].  On second thought, I will quote Gary's last paragraph in case
you are unable to find the post or did not receive it.

From GL Navlist [10844],
"You seem concerned with the viewing opportunities for Noonan. AE wrote
on page 47 in "Last Flight,"  "The plane had been fitted with special
windows" for use by the navigator. These side windows were larger than
standard and made out of flat glass to eliminate unwanted refraction. We
know from the Hawaii and Atlantic charts that he was able to take sights
in all direction and up to 75 degrees high. I have attached a table of
the relative bearings and altitudes shot while flying to Hawaii and to
Dakar. You can see that Noonan was able to take sights in every
direction and at many altitudes. The Pioneer octant makes it easy to
take high altitude shots because the index prism is located at the front
of the instrument only one inch back from the front. This allows you to
place the octant right up against the window and it only takes an 8 inch
high window to allow sights up to 80 degrees. Also the eyepiece is 9
inches back making it easy to place the octant well in front of you
against the window. This is different from the MA-1 where the index
prism is 4 inches back from the front requiring a much taller window to
allow high altitude shots."

It seems from the record that the L10AE was modified for taking better
celestial observations and that Noonan was able to take celestial shots
from +6 through +80 degrees with his Pioneer octant and reduce the
shots.  Your continued assertion that it was too difficult in a standard
L10 does not fit the facts as given by AE and the navigation record of
Noonan.  Your pictures though accurate of a standard L10 do not reflect
the changes known to have been applied to AE's plane.  One must also
take into account the octant used.

Scott


Ronald P Barrett wrote:
> TO ALL, I thought the two pictures might help us in our discussion as to how 
or where Noonan might be able to take a sun rise observation off the nose of 
the L-10E. Remembering the sun was down and off to the left of the nose and 
not up as most non-navs might think right off. Ron Barrett, President Air 
Force Navigators Observers Association (AFNOA)
> 

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