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Re: A-10 Sextant Manual
From: Gary LaPook
Date: 2009 Jun 17, 11:24 -0700
From: Gary LaPook
Date: 2009 Jun 17, 11:24 -0700
I would want to have a lot of hours of experience with the plane and accurate records of oil consumption. A new, tight engine can probably make it without a way to add oil but I would want to know that for sure based on the records. If you have to add oil between 25 hour oil changes your plane is probably not a good candidate for this flight. You should install a fuel totalizer so that you have accurate measurements of fuel flow and fuel consumed and remaining so you can make a good decision before the PNR. It will give you great peace of mind. It is also good to have an autopilot for such a long flight but not absolutely necessary and you will arrive very tired. gl On Jun 17, 5:55�am, Greg Rudzinskiwrote: > Terrific scenario fuel management analysis. In flight oil management > sounds a bit tricky. An engine with a lot of hours on it probably > wouldn't be up to the crossing. Looks like the cost is more > unreasonable than the risk ;-( and I already bought all the post > cards ;-) > > Greg > > On Jun 17, 4:58�am, Gary LaPook wrote: > > > You can fly there in a Cessna 172. The closest airport is Monterey from > > which it is 2012 NM to Hilo on the Big Island. It isn't much farther > > from several other California airports, 2041 from San Luis Obispo; 2064 > > from Santa Barbara; 2091 from Oxnard and 2096 from Camarillo. �I've > > heard that from the mainland to Hawaii is the longest non stop leg you > > must fly anywhere on earth but I haven't checked this out �myself. After > > Hawaii you can hop scotch across the Pacific with all the rest of the � > > legs less than 1500NM. > > > A Cessna 172 has a maximum gross weight of 2300 pounds, and an empty > > weight of about 1400 pounds leaving �a useful load of about 900 pounds. > > If the pilot weighs 200 pounds he can then carry 700 pounds of fuel. > > Look at the cruise performance table I posted before at: > > > http://www.geocities.com/glap...@pacbell.net/8.jpg > > > This shows that at 10,000 feet you can cruise at 96 knots on 45% power > > on a fuel flow of 5.4 gallons per hour which is the same as 32.4 pounds > > per hour. This means that you are getting a specific range of 2.96 > > NAM/lb (Nautical Air Miles per pound.) 2012 NM divided by 2.96 NAM/lb > > gives a required enroute fuel of 679 lbs which means you could make the > > flight with a 21 pound fuel reserve and still stay within gross weight > > limitations. This would allow you to fly an additional 62 NM. The ETE is > > about 21 hours. > > > But, that might be cutting it a little too close.........!! > > > and it doesn't allow for taxi and climb fuel or for any headwind > > component. Plus the ferry tank would weight about 50 pounds. (You will > > need a form 337 for the ferry tank installation.) �But still no problem > > because it is easy to get a ferry permit from the FAA authorizing you to > > fly 10% over gross giving an additional 230 pounds of useful load. Take > > away the fifty pounds for the ferry tank and you still get to carry an > > additional 180 pounds of fuel giving you a total of 880 pounds of fuel, > > 201 pounds of fuel more than the enroute fuel, enough to allow a reserve > > of over six hours or for a total drift from a headwind of almost 600 NM. > > Since the maximum endurance will be 27 hours, this is enough to > > compensate for a 21 knot headwind component (but this would leave no > > reserve.) > > > So get the tank installed, get a ferry permit and wait for a day when > > the winds are forecast to have less than a 10 knot headwind component > > and go for it! This will still give you a reserve of 340 NAM and about > > 3.6 hours. With a half dozen, hundred dollar hand held GPSs sitting on > > top of the instrument panel the navigation is trivial and you will know > > your ground speed and position at all times. Compute an ETP and a PNR > > and make your decision to continue or to turn around _before_ the point > > of no return based on your ground speed and updated wind information > > from the weather briefer, oh you will need to rent an HF radio too. You > > will also need to make position reports to the FAA every five degrees of > > longitude through ARINC on the HF. > > > Actually one of the biggest problems is not fuel but oil consumption. > > The FARs limit the fuel capacity, and so the endurance of a plane, based > > on the allowable oil consumption of the engine type. Since the standard > > tanks in a C-172 don't allow an endurance of 27 hours, it is possible > > the engine could use up all the oil in the crankcase long before you run > > out of fuel. For a flight this long you might need to come up with a > > provision to add oil in flight and this is sometimes done with a hand > > held pump and a tube going through a hole in the oil filler cap. > > > Many, many small airplanes have made this trip and on to Australia so it > > is not an unreasonable risk to take. It will cost a whole lot more than > > an airline ticket. 100LL fuel is $4.60 at Monterery so the fuel alone, > > (21 hours at 5.4 g/h) is $521 to get to Hilo. Gas at Hilo is $5.46 so > > $619 �for the return fuel. Add to this your engine reserves and it gets > > expensive fast. If you could find someone to rent you a plane and allow > > you to tank it and take it to Hawaii, the going rate is about $110 per > > hour times 21 hours equals $2310 for one person on this one way trip, > > $4620 round trip! Hope you have won the lottery! > > > So, send me a postcard from Honolulu. > > > gl > > > Greg Rudzinski wrote: > > > Gary, > > > > A thrilling first hand story! Glad you survived to tell us ;-) There > > > was an episode of Magnum P.I. (TV) from the 1980s that featured one of > > > the characters flying a Cessna from Los Angeles to Honolulu. Is this > > > possible? Hollywood usually gets things wrong. If you were to fly from > > > California to Hawaii in a small airplane what plane could do it and > > > would it be an unreasonable risk? > > > > Greg > > > > On Jun 14, 1:56 pm, "glap...@pacbell.net" wrote: > > > >> Mike Burkes ask me to give him more information concerning the engine > > >> quitting while I was flying across the Atlantic in a Cessna 172. Since > > >> I have already typed it up for him I figure I will bore you guys with > > >> the story too. > > > >> "I was ferrying a new C-172H to the Cessna distributor in Brussels in > > >> 1978. That was the model that Cessna switched from using a Continental > > >> engine to a Lycoming in the C-172. As in the past, the ferry company > > >> equipped the plane with a fifty gallon ferry tank placed on the floor > > >> where the co-pilots seat had been, that seat had been folded up and > > >> placed in the baggage compartment. The ferry tank was plumbed into a > > >> "T-fitting" in the fuel system downstream from the main fuel selector > > >> valve and had its own on-off valve. > > > >> Departed at midnight, IFR out of Newfoundland for the Azores as there > > >> was ice in the clouds all the way to Iceland on the northern route. > > >> Climbed to FL 100 on the main tanks then turned the main fuel valve > > >> off and the ferry valve on. > > > >> The first land you come to on that route is the island of Flores which > > >> is at the northwest end of the Azores chain, 1050 NM from > > >> Newfoundland. You can't land there but must continue to the airport on > > >> Santa Maria island at the far southeast end of the chain, about 400 NM > > >> further. I had flight planned 14 hours enroute with 16 hours of fuel > > >> onboard. > > > >> Shot some fixes during the first few hours to check ground speed and > > >> drift. About four or five hours into the flight (I don't have my notes > > >> with me) the engine stopped cold. That gets your attention. I lowered > > >> the nose to maintain flying speed and then the engine started running > > >> again. So I leveled off and the engine quit again. I went through > > >> several of these cycles and determined that the engine would run with > > >> the nose down but not in level flight so I kept the nose down, DUH! I > > >> thought this through and theorized that after the fuel had burned down > > >> to a certain point in the ferry tank, sitting next to me on the floor, > > >> that it did not supply enough fuel pressure to push the gas through > > >> the carburetor in the Lycoming engine although there had never been a > > >> problem with this ferry tank arrangement in earlier C-172s. So by > > >> lowering the nose I was raising the ferry tank higher above the > > >> carburetor supplying a greater head of fuel pressure and this got the > > >> engine going again. > > >> The only problem with keeping the nose down was that I was descending > > >> towards the Atlantic. When I got down to 2,000 feet (actually FL 020 > > >> since the altimeter was set to 29.92, the standard practice over the > > >> ocean), as low as I dared to go without a local altimeter setting, IFR > > >> at night in the middle of the Atlantic, �I turned the ferry tank off > > >> and the main tanks back on and climbed back up to FL 100. I repeated > > >> this cycle three of four times (maybe it was five or six times, I > > >> don't remember right now), each time the engine would quit again and I > > >> would have to keep getting the nose lower and lower to get the engine > > >> to run again. I had to do this to get all of the fuel out of the ferry > > >> tank so I could make it to Santa Maria. �Finally the engine wouldn't > > >> keep running no matter how low I pointed the nose so I went back on > > >> the mains and completed the flight. I shot some sun lines as I > > >> approached Flores and hit it right on ETA. Then continued �on and > > >> landed at Santa Maria about fourteen and a half hours after departure. > > > >> There was no excitement on the 800 NM leg to Porto Portugal or on the > > >> leg across the Bay of Biscay to Nantes or on the last leg into > > >> Brussels. > > > >> After this they built a frame to hold the ferry tank about two feet > > >> above the floor and no more problems on later flights.." > > >> gl > > > >> On Jun 11, 8:21 am, Gary LaPook wrote: > > > >>> I guess it all depends on your perspective. I have flown across the > > >>> Atlantic in a plane as small as a �Cessna 172, single engine, four > > >>> seats, (and had the engine quit a number of times in the middle of the > > >>> ocean in the middle of the night, whew!) while using my trusty A-10A to > > >>> shoot stars and the sun in order to find Flores in the Azores so as to > > >>> be able to refuel. > > > >>> gl > > > >>> douglas.de...@btopenworld.com wrote: > > > >>>> Regarding �Sir Francis Chichester: > > > >>>> Dr. Kolbe has it right. > > > >>>> I was referring not his astonishing navigation for which I have the very highest > > ... > > read more � --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Navigation List archive: www.fer3.com/arc To post, email NavList@fer3.com To , email NavList-@fer3.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---